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Valve joins the Linux Foundation

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Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#151

Post by PhasmaFelis »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #82
stinkytaco wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be contradicting yourself. Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. Playing on a Macbook is impossible (presumably for performance reasons?), but you talk about putting Linux on a 2002 PC for gaming. And Linux may or may not run on the latest generation hot stuff, depending on how much time you want to spend to get your newest graphics card w…

> Gaming doesn't work on OS X because it has too small a user base, but Linux's user base is much smaller. There's an estimated 20 million Ubuntu users worldwide, probably another 10 million or so of other Linux distros. Not to mention, Linux (and thus Steam OS) is easily installed. Adoption isn't a problem. Gaming on OSX doesn't work as well as on a PC because you can't put OSX on custom hardware. > As an aside, Lin…

> Gaming on OSX doesn't work as well as on a PC because you can't put OSX on custom hardware.

...What? That's a complete non sequitur. There are high-end and low-end Macs, just as with anything else, and high-end Macs play games just as well as high-end Windows boxes. And of course you can put OSX on custom hardware, it's just not a popular option.

> You sound like an iOS developer. It's not like every Windows PC has the same screen resolution and hardware, yet it's the biggest gaming platform... Have you ever developed anything for the desktop? It's not particularly difficult to get things to run on computers with different hardware...

Wow. Have you ever developed high-end games for a desktop? It's a damn nightmare to get fast 3D to run on computers with different hardware. There's a reason that so many devs only work with consoles: targeting a single, specific hardware set reduces development costs immensely. It's getting easier now that pre-fab engines are practical and popular and the developer can fob some of the work off on the engine creator, but testing a AAA game properly requires a bunch of tests to be repeated across dozens of different hardware setups, and you still get post-launch bug reports that the game crashes when run on X video card with Y motherboard.

And all that is just for Windows. Adding Ubuntu support alone doubles the testing and debugging load. I actually do think that Linux can be a successful gaming platform with Valve's backing, but your arguments are not good.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#152

Post by reubenmorais »

adamors wrote: post #142
gareim wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barrier to using Linux is not lower than Windows. Windows comes installed on almost every PC sold. Linux does not. Therefore more work is required to use Linux. I love Linux, but "if a program works on every single other distro.." is disingenuous. I have not once had 100% success with Linux on initial install. There has always been something that needed to be tweaked (usually sound or graphics). No, Windows isn't 100…

> Windows comes installed on almost every PC sold. Linux does not. Therefore more work is required to use Linux. Keep in mind that most people who play games (and I'm not talking about Angry Birds or Facebook games but people who use Steam) tend to build their own PCs. And installing Linux is just as easy as installing Windows, if not easier (you won't have to go on a driver hunt most of the time for instance).

> Keep in mind that most people who play games (and I'm not talking about Angry Birds or Facebook games but people who use Steam) tend to build their own PCs.

Do you have a source for this?

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#153

Post by adamors »

reubenmorais wrote: post #152
adamors wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Windows comes installed on almost every PC sold. Linux does not. Therefore more work is required to use Linux. Keep in mind that most people who play games (and I'm not talking about Angry Birds or Facebook games but people who use Steam) tend to build their own PCs. And installing Linux is just as easy as installing Windows, if not easier (you won't have to go on a driver hunt most of the time for instance).

> Keep in mind that most people who play games (and I'm not talking about Angry Birds or Facebook games but people who use Steam) tend to build their own PCs. Do you have a source for this?

Visit gaming forums, Steam discussion boards, Reddit etc.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#154

Post by jlund »

stinkytaco wrote: post #97
Mikeb85 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your problem is using Linux Mint... Both Steam and Wine work perfectly on Ubuntu 13.10 (I'm running both on my 13.10 laptop).

> Your problem is using Linux Mint... I think you just provided a shining example of the potential problems linux gaming faces...

Valve is making their own distribution.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#155

Post by aryastark »

scott_karana wrote: post #147
phaemon wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GIMP. Select the selection tool(why???) Mainly because 99% of learning Gimp is learning how to use selections properly. Gimp is for image manipulation , not drawing buttons. If that's the kind of stuff you're doing, use Inkscape. Do the Tutorials under the Help menu. They're really excellent and it sounds like exactly what you're looking for.

Does Inkscape have any raster modification capabilities? Not all "buttons" are composed solely of vectors.

You remind me of the people that use Excel to do desktop publishing, or mocking up GUI screens.

God bless your special breed.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#156

Post by kkangaroo »

erifneerg wrote: post #131
kayoone wrote: post #7

While this is great, its a bit sad that Valve is mostly doing all of this now, because they fear losing their dominance on windows to the native Store in Win 8.x In the end its a win-win for everyone if it works out, just their motives are questionable.

I saw this reasoning flying around a lot when Valve started working on linux. I saw the move from linux initially as a natural extension of developing for the Mac OS. GabeN was quoted saying something on the lines of how the games were running much more stable on OSX then windows and said the problem they had wasn't related to there code. Then I heard how performance issues. Using games performed (slightly?) better o…

http://www.neowin.net/news/valve-co-founder-windows-8-is-a-c...

Steam is a basically a middleman for games taking 30% cut of revenue. Of course they're and should be terrified of how Apple eliminated middlemen with the App store and the 30% cut of all sales inside the app. There are things like Xfire for the social gaming features.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#157

Post by andyroid »

venomsnake wrote: post #66
ds_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's broken about it?

Well linux have 10 main desktop managers that are under development right now. Each and every one of them does roughly 80% of what I want from a desktop. And I have uncomfortable experience on all.

Sounds great to me! My girlfriend's Windows 8.1 laptop does about 50% of what I want from a desktop. My work provisioned MacBook Air and OS X does about 70% of what I want from a desktop.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#158

Post by Mikeb85 »

clarry wrote: post #127
Mikeb85 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used Steam successfully with Ubuntu, SUSE, Fedora, Arch, Manjaro... Mint is just a buggy distro, I used it once upon a time, it's simply not stable.

Ubuntu is just a buggy distro, I used it once upon a time, it's simply not stable. Fedora is just a buggy distro, I used it once upon a time, it's simply not stable. Arch is just a buggy distro, I used it once upon a time, it's simply not stable. We could play this game all day to make stinkytaco's point.

You're right, any bleeding edge Linux can be unstable.

But I'd put an app into production on any of the ones listed over Mint.

Either way, the fact that Steam doesn't work on Mint is Mint's problem, not Steam's...

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#159

Post by larksimian »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #14
terabytest wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OS X is not a good platform for gaming. It has a significantly smaller user base of which only an even more significantly smaller are gamers. Playing on a MacBook (or at least on my MacBook) is impossible, and I wouldn't buy an iMac for gaming. On the other hand, you can put Linux on anything (for free!), from your mom's 2002 pc to the latest generation hot stuff. This means there is indeed a potential, and somebody…

Why is playing on a MacBook impossible? (not a Mac user, serious question)

Playing AAA titles might be difficult if they're badly optimised/don't have low graphics options. Others, like Skyrim, can run on an 2011 Macbook Air if you put the settings to low(though it leaves you with a surprisingly boring experience once the "HOLY CRAP MOUNTAINS!" is taken out of the equation).

If you're into indie games/GoG oldies it makes literally 0 difference what hardware you run most of them on as long as they actually run on that OS.

Re: Valve joins the Linux Foundation

#160

Post by pantalaimon »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #112
pjmlp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which cost almost three times the average salary of most European countries.

I bought mine refurbished for 1300 euros, which is comparable to the price of similarly specced PCs (and about the average salary of most European countries). Even if it was three times this price, what has that to do with its ability to play games ?

I highly doubt a refurbished (aka several years old) mobile GPU will suffice to play current games.
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