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House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

bbc.co.uk

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Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#151

Post by jlgreco »

corin_ wrote: post #45
eeky wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem arises that the legality of marriage was designed around traditional families. There's nothing that stops homosexuals from fulfilling their emotional, romantic, and other needs. But when you involved tax deductions because children are such an expensive commitment, it gets hairy. I do support civil unions (but not gay adoption), and I am tolerant of gays (I discuss these issues with friends who are gay),…

Child-based tax deductions should be based on what children a couple have, not on what gender the couple are. And why do you oppose gay adoption? That's nothing to do with changing the definition of marriage, or tax issues...

> Child-based tax deductions should be based on what children a couple have, not on what gender the couple are.

Should... and are. You can receive child-based tax deductions even if you are not married at all. Whenever I hear the "deductions are for the children" thing brought up I take it as a clear sign that the person saying it has very limited life experience.

Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#152

Post by commandar »

jorgeortiz85 wrote: post #116
pinchyfingers wrote: post #62

The bigger issue here is that people look to governments and religions for pardons, permission and other validation. People that see some kind of meaning in empty gestures like a posthumous pardon (after shaming and chemically castrating the man) are grossly mislead. Buying into the hype of government is what gives governments the power to commit senseless crimes like what was done to Alan Turing and many, many crime…

This is psychotic. In the literal sense of having lost contact with reality. As much as you dislike the government, you can't just ignore how incredibly powerful it is in people's daily lives. The incidents of legally recognized marriage are very real and very significant. I've met many families separated (or threatened with separation) by immigration law that didn't recognize same-sex couples. No amount of saying "f…

>The incidents of legally recognized marriage are very real and very significant. I've met many families separated (or threatened with separation) by immigration law that didn't recognize same-sex couples.

A real-world example of this with a name HN readers will recognize is Glenn Greenwald.

Greenwald has lived in Brazil for the past several years because his partner is Brazilian and Brazil recognizes same-sex relationships for immigration purposes while the United States does not.

Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#153

Post by dnskw »

thurn wrote: post #67
pinchyfingers wrote: post #62

The bigger issue here is that people look to governments and religions for pardons, permission and other validation. People that see some kind of meaning in empty gestures like a posthumous pardon (after shaming and chemically castrating the man) are grossly mislead. Buying into the hype of government is what gives governments the power to commit senseless crimes like what was done to Alan Turing and many, many crime…

You can live your life the way you want right up to the point where you want to visit your husband in the hospital or inherit the estate of your dead wife. Then these legal things start to matter.

>inherit the estate of your dead wife

A well written will would solve that issue.

Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#154

Post by dyno12345 »

thejsjunky wrote: post #147
dyno12345 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon#United_Kingdom Pardons are extraordinarily rare in the UK and normally only granted for misapplication of the law

The article seems to say the opposite: 'It is the standard policy of the Government to only grant pardons to those who are considered "morally" innocent of the offence, as opposed to those who may have been wrongly convicted by a misapplication of the law.' It also mentions that in 1996 there was a pardon given as a "reward for information".

It seems to say both that it is and it isn't at different points

Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#155

Post by EllaMentry »

eeky wrote: post #10

Like the majority of people, I oppose gay marriage. But what the British government did with chemical castration to Alan Turing and others is absolutely reprehensible - and they should pardon all of them. Let's not conflate these issues please.

Very, very few things get my blood boiling....

It is people like you who I make it my mission to fight against every single day.

It is people like you who feel so insecure that you have to force your ill-conceived morality on everyone.

It is people like you who completely misunderstand psychology, sociology and biology and insist upon strict gender binary. Which you then think justifies your one man one women bullshit.

It is people like you who would prevent me from marrying my beautiful girlfriend - thankfully I like in a more developed, forward thinking country.

It is people like you who would prevent me and my girlfriend from adopting children, despite the fact our household income is 4 times the national average and both of use would be loving stable parents with plenty of time off to take care of our children. Thankfully we like in a more developed country.

It is people like you that are the reason that I and several other people refuse to accept promotions or jobs that would require relocation to backwater countries like the USA.

It is people like you who one day history will see as pathetic and backwards.

Let me be absolutely clear on this. I hate you. I will never forgive you for what you have said and done. And I will do everything in my power to ensure you and people like you can never force your bullshit beliefs on me or anybody else. There have been too many murders, assaults, suicides and lost childhoods because of people like you.

The human race doesn't want you or need you. Have a nice day.

Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#156

Post by Karunamon »

Karunamon wrote: post #144
eeky wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are not supporting a thing, you are supporting keeping that thing from someone else. Here lies the crux of the debate. You think straight people are keeping something away from gays. But I think its gays trying to take something from straight people. Let's say I lived in a country that banned marriage entirely. I would still get married and it would be enough for me and my family to recognize that we are married…

>But I think its gays trying to take something from straight people. A gay couple getting married does not in any way, shape, or form impact another striaght person's marriage, and I challenge you to prove otherwise. You arguments are taken nearly VERBATIM from the anti-miscegenation movements of a few decades ago. Blacks marrying whites impacts the sanctity of traditional marriage and will harm children" and on and…

8 hours later, no response. Somehow I'm not surprised.

Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#157

Post by pinchyfingers »

jorgeortiz85 wrote: post #116
pinchyfingers wrote: post #62

The bigger issue here is that people look to governments and religions for pardons, permission and other validation. People that see some kind of meaning in empty gestures like a posthumous pardon (after shaming and chemically castrating the man) are grossly mislead. Buying into the hype of government is what gives governments the power to commit senseless crimes like what was done to Alan Turing and many, many crime…

This is psychotic. In the literal sense of having lost contact with reality. As much as you dislike the government, you can't just ignore how incredibly powerful it is in people's daily lives. The incidents of legally recognized marriage are very real and very significant. I've met many families separated (or threatened with separation) by immigration law that didn't recognize same-sex couples. No amount of saying "f…

I'm not ignoring how powerful the government is in people's lives. I'm saying that it holds that power because the masses of people believe that that's the way things should be. Discussions about useless debates happening in the House of Lords lends credibility to a completely ridiculous way of thinking. I don't think my position is the one that has lost contact with reality... I'd say the House of Lords is where reality is truly forgotten.

The last sentence I wrote was: "Thankfully I realize that government is just another scam for me to avoid to the best of my ability." I don't think people should stop paying taxes or do other things that put themselves in jeopardy, but I think that when people pay taxes or fight for marriage equality, they need to stay aware of what is really going on: they are victims of the government monopoly on violence.

Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#158

Post by pinchyfingers »

alanh wrote: post #92
pinchyfingers wrote: post #62

The bigger issue here is that people look to governments and religions for pardons, permission and other validation. People that see some kind of meaning in empty gestures like a posthumous pardon (after shaming and chemically castrating the man) are grossly mislead. Buying into the hype of government is what gives governments the power to commit senseless crimes like what was done to Alan Turing and many, many crime…

Those who want equal rights under the law should just “kill themselves now”? Wow. To borrow your own phrase, the proper response to that is “fuck off.”

Yes. Pursuing equal rights is a lost cause. You and Bill Clinton will never be treated the same by the U.S. government.

Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#159

Post by bntly »

beachstartup wrote: post #72
pinchyfingers wrote: post #62

The bigger issue here is that people look to governments and religions for pardons, permission and other validation. People that see some kind of meaning in empty gestures like a posthumous pardon (after shaming and chemically castrating the man) are grossly mislead. Buying into the hype of government is what gives governments the power to commit senseless crimes like what was done to Alan Turing and many, many crime…

well this is certainly a new one. complete and utter denial of government's existence and influence. not sure where this one falls on the left/right spectrum.

It falls firmly in the "I'm a 14 year old libertarian" category.

Re: House of Lords debates pardon for Alan Turing

#160

Post by rmc »

dllthomas wrote: post #28
rmc wrote: post #11

If it was wrong to prosecute Alan Turing for being gay, and right to pardon him, then they should pardon every other gay man convicted of homosexual acts.

... if the only problem with the acts in question was that they were homosexual.

Then go through all the convictions and look at it at a case-by-case basis. The details on the age of the people involved should be written down.

Or is justice too expensive?

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