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I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

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Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#151

Post by michaelochurch »

IsaacL wrote: post #150
michaelochurch wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have fought the hydra bravely, and I commend you for that. May the road rise up to meet you. May the wind be always at your back. What do you suppose we do? For the long-term, here's the financial structure for the solution that I see: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/03/26/gervais-macle... . Essentially, I think VC-istan and MegaCorps are both dead ends when it comes to genuine technical excellence (whic…

When I saw this story, my first thought was to go to the comments and do a ctrl-F "michaelochurch". Was not disappointed. I think this story is essentially the Clueless -> Loser transition in Gervais principle terminology.

That might be his future, but Clueless -> Loser is "going completely sane".

Technocrats are Clueless who go the other way and turn into "Sociopath with a heart of gold" types. We actually believe that there's something worth fighting for. Since we tend to disadvantage our own employability and, therefore, our incomes, I believe this puts us into the "insane" category.

We are here to use technology and rationality to do what our Boomer forebears never did (they came too soon, and had a lack of insight into the real problem) which is end industrial authoritarianism. The '60s radicals are back, 45 years later, but we sling code and like markets (in a left-libertarian, hybridize-the-welfare-state-and-market-economy, sort of way).

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#152

Post by eric_the_read »

agentultra wrote: post #145

Mental health is, unfortunately, not taken very seriously by many companies. I've never seen a benefits package that included therapy or coaching of any kind. We're put under a lot of stress at times (which can be exacerbated by existing mental conditions) and that can seriously affect our health. I suspect mental breakdowns happen more often than they are reported. It's not taken seriously and it's also something pe…

I've never worked in the Valley, but with one possible exception (I never tried to take advantage while I was there) every job I've had has had some form of Employee Assistance Program that covered things like counseling for workplace-related stress or work-life balance. It wasn't a comprehensive program (that was covered mostly by health insurance) but in most cases it would cover approximately six visits- free of charge- and not on your health insurance .

I did find that most of my co-workers were not aware of such programs, so if you feel like you could benefit from such a program, please contact your HR department. It's quite possible you already have such a program available to you and taking advantage could help out quite a bit if you are stressed.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#153

Post by smrtinsert »

"It has been my experience that good producers are more likely to be asked to continue to produce. If they moved you to a higher position and better pay then who would produce the software?"

This has been my experience as well. No company ever uses that time to great benefit either, they just use it to change their minds seven times before release instead of two. Killing yourself for someone else is not worth it.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#154

Post by crusso »

tgflynn wrote: post #132
crusso wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that the system is broken because some jobs ask you to be a hard worker? The article indicated nothing specific that the company had done wrong. It even admitted that the guy was "well treated and well paid" for his hard work - he just didn't like how he was "respected". It's astonishing me that getting paid and treated well to work hard triggers a comment that the "system is sick".

It's a matter of human beings being treated like cogs in a machine (which is in fact what they are in today's world). The potential of highly intelligent people is wasted by those who are better at extracting value than creating it. This leads to ever growing frustration which eventually explodes leading to the destruction of peoples lives. These are seen as individual problems but if these trends continue I believe…

human beings being treated like cogs in a machine

You realize that Hacker News is focused on people starting businesses, right? Why are you here?

hard worker - exactly the type of concept that the machine uses to exploit the naive.

When you get your car worked on, do you expect that the mechanic should fix your car because you're paying him to or because you give him a hug and tell him that he's a useful human being?

When you get a cup of coffee, do you expect the barista to want not only for you to pay for your double whip latte, but to also feel that you're validating her as a human being?

The guy was "well paid and well treated". Without an iota of evidence that the business was doing anything wrong besides expecting that its employees do a good job - you indite the system and ignore the probable fact that this guy had mental stability issues that were going to come out either at work, his personal life, wherever.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#155

Post by mathattack »

Is the issue really work-life balance, or mental health? They are actually two separate things.

I had a roommate lose it. He was very disciplined, but had a chemical imbalance in his head. He was a hard worker, but did this really have any impact on his losing it? I am not an expert, but I doubt it.

The end lesson of "Don't kill yourself for a company if they don't respect you" may be true, but that seems a little disconnected from taking care of your mental health.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#157

Post by crusso »

tensor wrote: post #38
qompiler wrote: post #17

Here is my advice, if you think you are really that good, start your own company. Proof it, let the market test you.

The market is like a school yard. Some people are popular and get all the praise. This reinforces their incorrect belief that it was their skill and not chance that got them ahead. If you want to prove you are really that good, contribute consistent novel and useful ideas to the world year after year. Prove that your ideas are good, with good unbiased evidence.

This reinforces their incorrect belief that it was their skill and not chance that got them ahead

If it doesn't take skill to have success in the market, then what's stopping you from being filthy rich?

contribute consistent novel and useful ideas

Wait, so if the market doesn't know how to properly judge ideas then who is the judge of what's "novel and useful"?

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#159

Post by pkteison »

michaelochurch wrote: post #144
Cabal wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, after seeing Ed's previous breakdown on Hacker News ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5361056 ), I have to see comments like this in a new light.

-1547. How in the name of a million fucks is that a breakdown ? That sounds like a break through . He's being honest about his atypical and unfortunate trajectory. I wish more people had the fucking cojones to be that way about their setbacks and rejections. Silicon Valley's tolerance of failure is paper-thin and a "heads, I win; tails, you lose" mentality. It means, "it's morally okay for me to fail you ". It justif…

The beginning was good, but when you claimed that smart people are certain to not get along with authority you went way out on an unsupported limb. I personally think passion and drive correlate to conflict a lot stronger than intelligence does; plenty of smart people know how to choose their battles and bite their tongues, and the suggestion that if they do they must not be super smart is just outrageous.

Re: I Knew a Programmer Who Went Completely Insane

#160

Post by michaelochurch »

pkteison wrote: post #159
michaelochurch wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

-1547. How in the name of a million fucks is that a breakdown ? That sounds like a break through . He's being honest about his atypical and unfortunate trajectory. I wish more people had the fucking cojones to be that way about their setbacks and rejections. Silicon Valley's tolerance of failure is paper-thin and a "heads, I win; tails, you lose" mentality. It means, "it's morally okay for me to fail you ". It justif…

The beginning was good, but when you claimed that smart people are certain to not get along with authority you went way out on an unsupported limb. I personally think passion and drive correlate to conflict a lot stronger than intelligence does; plenty of smart people know how to choose their battles and bite their tongues, and the suggestion that if they do they must not be super smart is just outrageous.

Around 130, you start to question and dislike authority, but you can still hold back.

At 150, authority comes to you looking for fights (even if you don't do anything to it) because you make it insecure about its inherent illegitimacy and moral emptiness.

Actual 150s are pretty rare: about 43 per 100,000 people. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3.333+sigma

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