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Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

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Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#151

Post by theorique »

jmharvey wrote: post #142
JPKab wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a 31 year old male, here is my message to tech companies with products to sell: If you have "booth babes" (I think she did a great job in the article of defining what that term means), I'm not going to buy your product. I hate it and always have. Its trashy and demeaning, and I resent being grouped into the lowest common denominator when I go to view a product I actually care about. As demeaning as it is to women,…

The problem she described is a bit tougher to solve than simply saying, "don't hire booth babes." "[W]omen who are pretty but not models, dressed in normal street clothes" describes a pretty big percentage of the general population. Under her definition, "If you have 'booth babes' ..., I'm not going to buy your product" is essentially the same as saying "If you have women selling your product, I'm not going to buy it…

Under her definition, "If you have 'booth babes' ..., I'm not going to buy your product" is essentially the same as saying "If you have women selling your product, I'm not going to buy it," which isn't exactly an enlightened position to take.

It's almost as though you need to get ugly women - if the women are too attractive, then they are written off as "booth babes". Which is kind of sexist in its own way.

Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#152

Post by gavanwoolery »

Sex sells. Actually one of the more popular search terms associated with E3 was "booth babes." Are companies willing to sacrifice their "dignity" in order to have their brand appear in more searches? Absolutely. Some of the most visited sites on the internet are pornography sites. Lets not kid ourselves - we were genetically designed to reproduce and value sexual attraction.

The problem is that every one treats women using their sexual attraction like it is a bad thing (or it somehow undervalues their intelligence -- which it does not; just because you value one thing does not mean you don't another). I don't think there is any shame in it. We have been promoting products with sexual appeal since the dawn of advertising. Everybody get off their high horse already and accept that we are beasts of nature. :)

Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#153

Post by ars »

jmharvey wrote: post #142
JPKab wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a 31 year old male, here is my message to tech companies with products to sell: If you have "booth babes" (I think she did a great job in the article of defining what that term means), I'm not going to buy your product. I hate it and always have. Its trashy and demeaning, and I resent being grouped into the lowest common denominator when I go to view a product I actually care about. As demeaning as it is to women,…

The problem she described is a bit tougher to solve than simply saying, "don't hire booth babes." "[W]omen who are pretty but not models, dressed in normal street clothes" describes a pretty big percentage of the general population. Under her definition, "If you have 'booth babes' ..., I'm not going to buy your product" is essentially the same as saying "If you have women selling your product, I'm not going to buy it…

Another solution is badges. Either "side" could wear them: Either require all promoters to wear them, or hand them out to all attendees.

Make them large and noticeable, on a lanyard probably.

Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#154

Post by summerdown2 »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #125
jiggy2011 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you could say "women with body types that men are more likely to pay attention to" or as they are commonly known "models". Trying to get people to deprogram their own biology at a very deep level is probably going to be a losing battle.

The idea that men pay attention to supermodel shaped women is (1) sexist (2) very mistaken. Sexist men pay horny attention to them. Horniness is a distraction from a product pitch. "I'm sorry, what did you say again? I was staring at your chest."

The idea that men pay attention to supermodel shaped women is sexist?

Surely this is a parody?

Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#155

Post by waps »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #134
JPKab wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a 31 year old male, here is my message to tech companies with products to sell: If you have "booth babes" (I think she did a great job in the article of defining what that term means), I'm not going to buy your product. I hate it and always have. Its trashy and demeaning, and I resent being grouped into the lowest common denominator when I go to view a product I actually care about. As demeaning as it is to women,…

Problem is, you see an attractive woman at a booth, assuming she is wearing regular business or casual attire. How do you know if she was hired because she was attractive or because of other skills/attributes or a mixture of both?

Talk to her. After the first sentence you will know the difference.

Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#156

Post by theorique »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #120
jiggy2011 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how such a boycott would even work, insist that all advertising uses ugly women?

When orchestras started doing tryouts behind an opaque screen, they found that their previous insistence that women couldn't play as well as men was bogus, because the interviewees that got the job were 50/50 male and female. You could get a third party to white out the gender cues on resumes before you sort them into the shortlist, and then conduct interviews over text skype. But honestly, someone who uses the conce…

But honestly, someone who uses the concept "ugly women" is failing so hard at sexism already they might as well be a character from "Mad Men".

I suspect you mean they are succeeding at being sexist?

Also, why is it sexist to acknowledge that some people are better looking than others? Clearly, making this sort of judgment about a non-customer-facing role is inappropriate, but is it wrong to acknowledge that looks play a part in customer contact[1] roles?

[1] In person, obviously. No one care what the call center person looks like as long as they speak English.

Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#157

Post by reinhardt »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #120
jiggy2011 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how such a boycott would even work, insist that all advertising uses ugly women?

When orchestras started doing tryouts behind an opaque screen, they found that their previous insistence that women couldn't play as well as men was bogus, because the interviewees that got the job were 50/50 male and female. You could get a third party to white out the gender cues on resumes before you sort them into the shortlist, and then conduct interviews over text skype. But honestly, someone who uses the conce…

TIL finding a woman ugly is considered hardcore sexism. PC has moved beyond self-mockery at this point, it's surreal.

Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#158

Post by theorique »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #125
jiggy2011 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you could say "women with body types that men are more likely to pay attention to" or as they are commonly known "models". Trying to get people to deprogram their own biology at a very deep level is probably going to be a losing battle.

The idea that men pay attention to supermodel shaped women is (1) sexist (2) very mistaken. Sexist men pay horny attention to them. Horniness is a distraction from a product pitch. "I'm sorry, what did you say again? I was staring at your chest."

The idea that men pay attention to supermodel shaped women is (1) sexist (2) very mistaken.

Do you know any men in real life? Unless you're just trolling, I find it hard to believe that you actually believe this.

Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#159

Post by bluehat »

mnicole wrote: post #133
bluehat wrote: post #80

Hey guys, Katy here, just wanted to thank everybody for the support and super insightful feedback. I will continue to edit the post and post here with clarifications, mostly after work hours :) And yes, I know everybody's probably sick of gender issues, and that's why I almost didn't bring it up, but I hoped it would be a chance for a good civil discussion, and I'm really glad to see it turning into that. Hopefully s…

Never stop blogging about it, please. Did you see the post the other day from the woman who works at Game Informer ( http://meagan-marie.tumblr.com/post/46396481491/what-would-y... )? Her experience at PAX East was one thing, but her work stories were even worse. I'd recommend it to everyone here.

I read this with the chorus of Journey

"Don't stop, belieeeeeeving! Streetlight! People!"

Re: Booth Babes, Street Clothes, and GDC: Thanks But You sort of Made It Worse

#160

Post by MartinCron »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #95
bluehat wrote: post #80

Hey guys, Katy here, just wanted to thank everybody for the support and super insightful feedback. I will continue to edit the post and post here with clarifications, mostly after work hours :) And yes, I know everybody's probably sick of gender issues, and that's why I almost didn't bring it up, but I hoped it would be a chance for a good civil discussion, and I'm really glad to see it turning into that. Hopefully s…

Your post was much more thoughtful and therefor conductive to reasonable discussion than the shitstorm we had last week.

Talk about setting a low bar.
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