Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. science is in chaos

scientificamerican.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 1001 posts

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#151

Post by defrost »

jordanb wrote: post #142
defrost wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, sure. In Australia we established a Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, looked at all the schools and institutions regardless of creed (and, it turned out, the Christian Brothers were the clear worst of the worst - although few came away unscathed) and then put a senior Vatican Cardinal on trial. TBH it's been a lot harder to get the worst carbon offenders under close scrut…

Check out the timing. The sex abuse scandal broke in the US in the late 90s/early 2000s and the fight went on here for many years before it spread to the rest of the church. The church in Rome was blowing it off as an American problem for many years. That Australian commission was established in 2012. The battle had already been going on for well over a decade in the US. If you want to see how things were going early…

The Australian Commission wasn't the first effort in a known problem ongoing since first landing, it was the peak response in Australia after many decades of battle ... has there been a national effort of a similar scope in the US ?

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#152

Post by phs318u »

adornKey wrote: post #126
IsTom wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to vent: climate change is not a controversial topic, it's an inconvenient topic for people making a lot of money.

[flagged]

> nobody has ever bothered to look into any details of atmosphere physics.

I’m sorry but this is demonstrably wrong as the simplest search of reputable scientific journals would show.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#153

Post by KolibriFly »

gignico wrote: post #7
embedding-shape wrote: post #4

> When the shutdown ended in mid-November, Reynolds’s team had just two weeks to get on budget. It failed. The plan the group submitted would cost too much and take too long. “Our last hope was that NASA headquarters would understand what had gone on and give us some leeway,” Reynolds says. NASA did not. After nearly 10 years of work, AXIS was dead. If the scientists haven't left science behind after an experience li…

We all should feel sad and angry. That said, this was never about saving money. This is about keeping scientists under tight control by the government, in order to suppress research on climate change and other controversial topics. If the government can cut your grant at any time without notice or appeal you will think twice before publishing results that go against their ideology, or even before publishing a critici…

Even if you leave intent aside, the effect is the same: it teaches researchers that funding is conditional on staying within an invisible and shifting political boundary

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#154

Post by timr »

estearum wrote: post #122
timr wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So where are researchers who want to study topics you don't personally like supposed to get funding, in your view? I'm sorry, was I not clear enough? Bad research should not get funding. Or at least, it shouldn't get it for decades and decades , while producing no results [1]. One's desire to do research into irrelevant questions does not entitle you to support in the name of "science". [1] I'm OK with some crap sc…

Just because the medical system hasn't adapted to the (frankly astounding) findings produced by SDOH research doesn't mean it's not valuable or should be stopped. The takeaway from SDOH is that social determinants are by far more powerful forces on people's health than actual medicine. You would prefer we spend all of our money on the 10-15% of health outcomes determined by actual medical care and simply ignore the r…

> (frankly astounding) findings produced by SDOH research

I'm telling you, these same "astounding" findings were around 20 years ago. I learned about them when I was an undergraduate. They haven't changed.

Things can be astounding and still be old news. Quantum mechanics were astounding in 1930. Doesn't mean we should firehose money into standard model research. The world moves on.

> You would prefer we spend all of our money on the 10-15% of health outcomes determined by actual medical care and simply ignore the remainder, and you argue this from a point of "logic?"

No. Next question.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#155

Post by nilirl »

timr wrote: post #105
jfengel wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's a fairly common attitude. Thus far it doesn't seem to be down voted. I wrote what I think of as a fairly coherent objection. I expect it to be voted down. Would you also recommend "pre vouching" for it?

[flagged]

From your original post,

> repeating things we already know

Not a terribly scientific stance.

> while legitimate researchers have to scrimp and wheedle to do anything novel

There isn't a normative standard for good research beyond doing good research. Some fields have an easier time setting up and controlling experiments, but no research can predict how useful it'll turn out to be. You're conflating control convenience for utility.

> randomize grants who meet a basic competency threshold

You ignore the political and economic system within which the scientific system sits.

> if it leads to a more focused funding of actual, legitimate science, I'm largely in favor

Again, your normative standard for what is legitimate.

> simply because it's done by a consortium of big names, in trendy areas.

They're trendy for a reason. Science is, at it's core, questioning things because someone cares about it.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#156

Post by t0bia_s »

tovej wrote: post #138
adornKey wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's only a religious topic to climate change denialists.

By your rethoric, do you consider yourself as climate alarmist?

Maybe try to be honest to yourslef first and then you'll understand, why it is really just about opinions that vary. No need to labeling opposition.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#157

Post by foxglacier »

IsTom wrote: post #70
ffsm8 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me neither. Lots of them deny that certain differences between humanity exist however, and that's just biology. Eg. Fe-/male and racial differences. They exist, yet they cannot be admitted to and any reference to them will have the political left call you a nazi, racist, sexist and pedo to boot, because the other terms are already less impactful from overuse

> any reference to them will have the political left call you a nazi, racist, sexist and pedo to boot I think this boils down to the fact it's typically just a thin veil for motivated reasoning.

What's the veiled motivation of a white person who says that Asians are intellectually superior to whites?

Leftists see racism and sexism everywhere - their ideology focusses on that and they pick up on any excuse they can to label people as that. It's actually a horrible way to treat their fellow humans.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#158

Post by defrost »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #148
defrost wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, sure. In Australia we established a Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, looked at all the schools and institutions regardless of creed (and, it turned out, the Christian Brothers were the clear worst of the worst - although few came away unscathed) and then put a senior Vatican Cardinal on trial. TBH it's been a lot harder to get the worst carbon offenders under close scrut…

As a leading exporter of coal Australia isn't really a good example of a serious climate actor.

Australia's a good example of a country that sells out its resources for a pittance NSR in exchange.

We can talk about Indian coal companies (Thermal), global steel demand (Metallurgical), US natural gas extractors, etc.

Still, at least we have the vast areas untouched by modern man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh9IkUUgaww

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#159

Post by bxk76 »

kranke155 wrote: post #69
marcyb5st wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that happening. The US debt will hinder any big expense that could keep it in any game long term. Take AI for instance. The US grid is struggling to keep up with demand, while Chinese one has a lot of headway [1]. Usually, this could be solved by an increase in spending lasting a few years which would make the debt tick up, but that would've been an absolutely fine use of debt since it buys some shiny new…

It is absolutely a Chinese century. Even the comment above isn’t wrong per se - great power competition is normal during the interregnum, ie as Arrighi described it - one hegemon is rising while another is declining. But eventually one of them does rise and the world conforms to that - ie America in post WW2.

Well China cant seem to make a single friend beyond North Korea and Russia. Everyone is a bit wary of them.

I mean when the US replaced the Brits as Hegemon a large part of the world wasnt nervous about it.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#160

Post by kittikitti »

This article informs a good understanding and confirms the issues I've witnessed in academia. However, I found that it didn't cover the censorship of any criticism of Israel in science and academics. This was explicitly codified into law with respect to government funding and is a major topic of scientific funding in colleges and universities. Scientific grants and researchers often require a Zionist bias to get funding, something that is unacceptable.
Post reply on HN