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U.S. science is in chaos

scientificamerican.com

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Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#101

Post by brookst »

ffsm8 wrote: post #66
IsTom wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I've ever met a leftist denying evolution.

Me neither. Lots of them deny that certain differences between humanity exist however, and that's just biology. Eg. Fe-/male and racial differences. They exist, yet they cannot be admitted to and any reference to them will have the political left call you a nazi, racist, sexist and pedo to boot, because the other terms are already less impactful from overuse

It’s one of those topics where there’s a kernel of truth, but most people who insist women or Black people are scientifically different are not doing so out of any interest in science. So the small percentage of people who just want to make a valid point get lumped in with the much larger group, and unfairly tarred.

Perhaps because, to many people, it seems wrong to set policy based on marginal differences in the aggregate when the policy will affect individuals, and also because people doubt the motives of those who are highly invested in proving a scientific basis for negative stereotypes.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#102

Post by rjsw »

timr wrote: post #30
embedding-shape wrote: post #4

> When the shutdown ended in mid-November, Reynolds’s team had just two weeks to get on budget. It failed. The plan the group submitted would cost too much and take too long. “Our last hope was that NASA headquarters would understand what had gone on and give us some leeway,” Reynolds says. NASA did not. After nearly 10 years of work, AXIS was dead. If the scientists haven't left science behind after an experience li…

> If the scientists haven't left science behind after an experience like this, probably nothing will....I think I should feel angry, but I just feel sad for all the humans involved here, I hope they manage to come out with a more positive perspective than I'm able to here. As someone who spent far too much of my life pursuing that goal, I have an unpopular opinion: US science needs some cuts. The first project (the s…

A fair bit of "science" is about providing training to the following generations. Sure, your example isn't going to turn up any new insights into structural racism but it is something that you can point grad students at to learn how to capture data.

Diabetes is getting worse, just saying that "we looked at poor people's problems 50 years ago so don't need to look at them again" isn't going to flag it up.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#103

Post by ModernMech »

MemoryHoleHQ wrote: post #42
qnpnpmqppnp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoting the article: > Applying for highly competitive grants with limited funding is what scientists have always had to do to carry out the science—a flawed process with few alternatives. But arbitrary cancellations and delayed disbursements are unprecedented. And justifying them on the basis of politics—prohibiting, for instance, grants that include language referencing diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI)—was unh…

[flagged]

> The grants should go the best proposals, not to those with the proper genitalia, melanin content of the skin, and correct religion of those applying.

I'm confused. At least at the NSF, about 60-70% of their awards go to white men. Are those the appalling discriminatory practices, or what do you mean?

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#104

Post by MemoryHoleHQ »

brorfred wrote: post #84
MemoryHoleHQ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Just to show how DEI works at NASA, I share a DEI plan we wrote for a proposal just before the change of administration. This plan was rated highly by the agency. Which parts are "appealing discriminatory practices"? Inclusion Plan Both PIs and collaborators recognize the negative effect that systemic barriers have on academia and the importance of facilitating the full participation, belonging, and contribution of d…

[flagged]

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#105

Post by timr »

jfengel wrote: post #80
raincole wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for providing your perspective. I really hope HN has a 'pre-vouch' button as I know your comment will be flagged in no time, even though it's quite articulated.

I believe it's a fairly common attitude. Thus far it doesn't seem to be down voted. I wrote what I think of as a fairly coherent objection. I expect it to be voted down. Would you also recommend "pre vouching" for it?

[flagged]

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#106

Post by Rebuff5007 »

johnp314 wrote: post #49
nkrisc wrote: post #21

[flagged]

Science is partisan, at least the 'science' being addressed in this article, because the funding for this science comes from a finite source and there are competing demands placed on this finite source. As any competent scientist knows, taking something from a finite source leaves less in the source. There are differing ideas and beliefs, some partisan (including those of the esteemed Mr. Colbert), on how best to div…

Science being partisan right now has nothing to do with funding. It has to do with the disdain that the people currently in power have to live in a shared reality with the rest of the poulation.

Theres a monumental leap from saying "lets not invest in climate change because thats not a good use of tax dollars" to "lets not invest in climate change because its a hoax."

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#107

Post by snaking0776 »

cubefox wrote: post #67
IsTom wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I've ever met a leftist denying evolution.

[flagged]

I think it’s less that it’s impossible but more that we don’t have any clue as to what causes differences among groups and many people use such measured differences as evidence for pretty deplorable ideas. There’s much more evidence for social determiners than anything biological. Everyone outside of Africa shares a single ancestor 20,000 years ago. There’s far more genetic diversity within Africa than the rest of the world. That alone is often enough to disprove many theories regarding racial differences since our intuitive understanding of “genetic difference” is so flawed.

Past research has a eugenicist bias because early statisticians were eugenicists seeking evidence for the ideas. I would argue that’s why the social determiners research is valuable to help offset that.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#108

Post by dluan »

timr wrote: post #46
dluan wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

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America is facing a multi-generational technical decline never before seen that will do irreparable harm across all fields of research, let alone the human cost especially borne by young scientists who have more to lose, and your grand insightful take is that well, some of it deserved to get cut, when you're not even the one making the decisions of which ones do receive funding.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#109

Post by nixon_why69 »

timr wrote: post #83
jfengel wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem strongly in favor science that you understand, and opposed to research that you don't take an interest in or have read. I don't think you'd accept news media accounts of space science. But you're accepting their synopses of social science without looking deeper. Perhaps I am wrong and you're actually an expert on sociology or some related field. But you are not accurately describing how the field works and w…

> You seem strongly in favor science that you understand, and opposed to research that you don't take an interest in or have read. Just say it the clear way, so that everyone can see what you're doing: if I don't like it, it must be because I don't understand it.

I'm not well-versed in social science either so I don't have a slam dunk here, but I'd be very willing to bet it's more involved than you're portraying.

To flip it on your space telescope, another one? They've been doing this for years, they're just going to tell us there's a lot of galaxies out there, boring.

Re: U.S. science is in chaos

#110

Post by svachalek »

irchans wrote: post #64
nkrisc wrote: post #21

[flagged]

Certainly most universities now have a very strong liberal bias. I think most science departments were left leaning in the 1950s, but it is stronger now. (I think colleges and universities have always been more progressive than the general populous.) The administrations of universities are now very strongly Democrat leaning. I think that Trump just sees a lot of Democrat run institutions and thinks, "Why should the g…

Because until this administration, it has been considered a vital principle of democracy that the elected government supports all the citizens and institutions of the nation, not just the ones that it controls.
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