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Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

economist.com

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Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#151

Post by nathan_compton »

bheadmaster wrote: post #114
nathan_compton wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is obvious at all. I think its a reasonable function of the state to pursue policies that improve the mental and physical health of its citizens, partly because the negative effects of an unhealthy population are not limited to the individuals who are unhealthy. Liberty is great. I wouldn't want to live anywhere where it wasn't one of the primary goals of a society, but there is no stone tablet fro…

When you say "a society" sets a goal, it always implies a ruling group of people imposing their view of the common good unto everyone. How do you make sure that whoever makes that choice makes it in a way you yourself will agree with?

I think a mature person accepts some compromise with society at large. How do you make sure your wife always wants to do what you want? You don't. You live with other people, depend on them, pay for them when they are sick or poor (one way or another). You can't escape society. All that the libertarian view appears to do is make everyone miserable with externalities that a properly functioning state would regulate out of existence.

People's lives are ruined by gambling all the time, for instance. It is dumb to pretend like the pleasure a few people get out of it is worth someone betting away his family's welfare. It is ok to just decide "this needs to be regulated." Not everything is some intractible philosophical mystery that no consensus will ever coalesce around. Not every single thing every single person wants needs to be taken seriously.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#152

Post by sokoloff »

fireflash38 wrote: post #138
bheadmaster wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "a society" sets a goal, it always implies a ruling group of people imposing their view of the common good unto everyone. How do you make sure that whoever makes that choice makes it in a way you yourself will agree with?

Do you seriously believe that is not happening now? Or that even a libertarian utopia could manage to achieve agreement? If you're going to get philosophical, go all the way. Why have society at all because it's just people imposing their will on others? Or do you at least agree that there exists a line?

Even though there clearly must be a line on some topics, many people think those lines should be placed to minimize the number of times people are forced to do something (or prevented from doing something) against their will.

It’s not at all obvious that “adults can’t have TikTok” is anywhere near the correct side of that line.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#153

Post by mayhemducks »

gnarlouse wrote: post #139

nauseating to think that Amazon was only charged $2.5B when they made somewhere around $25-44B off the Iliad cancellation thing.

Yes it is nauseating. And it's the norm. Whenever some company finds a way to make a boat-load of money by exploiting a weakness of human nature, the government will demand a portion of the proceeds. It's business as usual, in the USA at least. Even more nauseating is what they could do with that $2.5B...

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#154

Post by beloch »

How much time you spend on something has become a metric of success in both gaming and social media.

I occasionally play a perpetually-in-alpha AAA+ game (I won't name it to avoid the flames) that recently asked users to fill out a questionnaire. At no point did it ask how they could make my time spent in the game more fun or awesome. They did explicitly ask, "What can we do to make you spend more time in game?". The focus was clearly on quantity, not quality. This made me realize that, perhaps, I should stop playing this game.

Social media and games use all sorts of dark patterns and engagement bait to keep you clicking, but no concern is given to giving back. There is a complete absence of awareness that the best forms of entertainment enrich and then end. If they were to provide an amazing but brief experience that changes regularly, people would come back again and again. They don't need to spend hours on it every single day to feel they're getting value and justify opening their wallets. Doom-scrolling and spending excessive time grinding in games will only make you feel stressed out and unfulfilled. Customers need to realize this and start voting with their wallets for experiences that end.

We need to turn things around and say, "The light that burns half as long burns twice as bright!"

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#155

Post by bloqs »

noosphr wrote: post #128

I'm so happy the economist is converting this important topic. Now if only the dick heads running this complete rag could listen to the wonderful people who wrote that enlightened piece and let users unsubscribe: https://www.reddit.com/r/assholedesign/comments/rli0u9/how_t...

Jeez. I actually stopped short of reading the article because of this screenie

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#156

Post by djoldman »

From the corporate POV, the lesson remains: never ever ever conduct research that could lead to a conclusion that your product/service can harm in any way, unless you know how and intend to fix/change it.

The most important evidence was just internal research saying exactly what the plaintiffs wanted.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#157

Post by [deleted] »

pembrook wrote: post #103
dd8601fn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the TikTok ban that lasted all of twelve seconds. I’ve been using the internet for longer than I care to admit, and I’ve never seen anything like it. It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time.

> It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time. No, it was not. It was actually nothing like that. No babies were left to die because their parents were out searching for tiktok clips. I saw no people whoring themselves on the street just to see a few tiktok clips. I heard no stories of children stealing from their own family to get a few scrolls of tiktok. There was no people killing…

[deleted]

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#158

Post by pembrook »

ori_b wrote: post #134
pembrook wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time. No, it was not. It was actually nothing like that. No babies were left to die because their parents were out searching for tiktok clips. I saw no people whoring themselves on the street just to see a few tiktok clips. I heard no stories of children stealing from their own family to get a few scrolls of tiktok. There was no people killing…

True facts. My friend spent an entire day without weed once, and he killed 3 people, and abandoned seven babies. Four of which weren't even his!

Not sure if you're aware opioids and crack exist.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#159

Post by pembrook »

rjbwork wrote: post #132
pembrook wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was like 300 million junkies all lost their drug supplier at the same time. No, it was not. It was actually nothing like that. No babies were left to die because their parents were out searching for tiktok clips. I saw no people whoring themselves on the street just to see a few tiktok clips. I heard no stories of children stealing from their own family to get a few scrolls of tiktok. There was no people killing…

I think you're probably vastly discounting the amount of childhood neglect wrought by social media addiction on both the parent and child's parts.

No, I'm not.

The median child of a social media user (so basically, the median child) is vastly more well off than the median child of a heroin/crack cocaine user and its not even close.

The fact you're suggesting some level of equivalency is wild imo.

Glad I could draw attention to the irrational logic of the current "social media is evil" moral panic.

Re: Stop big tech from making users behave in ways they don't want to

#160

Post by NemoNobody »

beloch wrote: post #154

How much time you spend on something has become a metric of success in both gaming and social media. I occasionally play a perpetually-in-alpha AAA+ game (I won't name it to avoid the flames) that recently asked users to fill out a questionnaire. At no point did it ask how they could make my time spent in the game more fun or awesome. They did explicitly ask, "What can we do to make you spend more time in game?". The…

This is a rather easy fix - we all just need to start leaving games open, save a game, leave it on, go to work, come back load the save and play, or just alt-f4. I watch a lot of Asian content that used to be practically impossible to watch legally. I actually intentionally used a site that would constantly be "visiting websites" in the background, thousands of sites would be visited in a short time - I don't really see ads on the Internet but when I did, they no longer made any sense - my actual internet activity was a small percentage of my the activity that was tracked. I have spent hundreds of hours in games I've literally never played.

Make their data junk.

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