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Claude Code is suddenly everywhere inside Microsoft

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Re: Claude Code is suddenly everywhere inside Microsoft

#151

Post by freedomben »

ralusek wrote: post #139
paxys wrote: post #111

For one reason or another everyone seems to be sleeping on Gemini. I have been exclusively using Gemini 3 Flash to code these days and it stands up right alongside Opus and others while having a much smaller, faster and cheaper footprint. Combine it with Antigravity and you're basically using a cheat code.

I think Gemini is an excellent model, it's just not a particularly great agent. One of the reasons is that its code output is often structured in a way that looks like it's answering a question, rather than generating production code. It leaves comments everywhere, which are often numbered (which not only is annoying, but also only makes sense if the numbering starts within the frame of reference of the "question" it…

Yeah, you may have nailed it. Gemini is a good model, but in the Gemini CLI with a prompt like, "I'd like to add support. What are my options? Don't write any code yet" it will proceed to skip right past telling me my options and will go ahead an implement whatever it feels like. Afterward it will print out a list of possible approaches and then tell you why it did the one it did.

Codex is the best at following instructions IME. Claude is pretty good too but is a little more "creative" than codex at trying to re-interpret my prompt to get at what I "probably" meant rather than what I actually said.

Re: Claude Code is suddenly everywhere inside Microsoft

#153

Post by jayd16 »

smoe wrote: post #26
onion2k wrote: post #6

Microsoft have a goal that states they want to get to " 1 engineer, 1 month, 1 million lines of code. " You can't do that if you write the code yourself. That means they'll always be chasing the best model. Right now, that's Opus 4.5.

It is kind of funny that throughout my career, there has always been pretty much a consensus that lines of code are a bad metric, but now with all the AI hype, suddenly everybody is again like “Look at all the lines of code it writes!!” I use LLMs all day every day, but measuring someone or something by the number of lines of code produced is still incredibly stupid, in my opinion.

I think the charitable way to read the quote is that 1M LOC are to be converted, not written.

Re: Claude Code is suddenly everywhere inside Microsoft

#154

Post by mgkimsal »

timr wrote: post #144
kemotep wrote: post #127

Microsoft really needs to get a better handle with the naming conventions. There is Microsoft Copilot, which replaced Bing Chat, Cortana and uses OpenAI’s GPT-4 and 5 models. There is Github Copilot, the coding autocomplete tool. There is Microsoft 365 Copilot, what they now call Office with built in GenAI stuff. There is also a Copilot cli that lets you use whatever agent/model backend you want too? Everything is Co…

> There is Github Copilot, the coding autocomplete tool. No, there is Github Copilot, the AI agent tool that also has autocomplete, and a chat UI. I understand your point about naming, but it's always helpful to know what the products do.

> No, there is Github Copilot, the AI agent tool that also has autocomplete, and a chat UI.

When it came out, Github Copilot was an autocomplete tool. That's it. That may be what the OP was originally using. That's what I used... 2 years ago. That they change the capabilities but don't change the name, yet change names on services that don't change capabilities further illustrates the OP's point, I would say.

Re: Claude Code is suddenly everywhere inside Microsoft

#157

Post by kemotep »

timr wrote: post #150
jacquesm wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPs point is that it is confusing, I guess point well made?

Only if the naming confusion kept them from actually bothering to understand what the product is?

The confusion is when I say “I have a terrible time using Copilot, I don’t recommend using it” and someone chimes in with how great their experience with Github Copilot is, a completely different product and how I must be “holding it wrong” when that is not the same Copilot. That Microsoft has like 5 different products all using Copilot in the name, even people in this very comment section are only saying “Copilot” so it is hard to know what product they are talking about!

Re: Claude Code is suddenly everywhere inside Microsoft

#158

Post by timr »

mgkimsal wrote: post #154
timr wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is Github Copilot, the coding autocomplete tool. No, there is Github Copilot, the AI agent tool that also has autocomplete, and a chat UI. I understand your point about naming, but it's always helpful to know what the products do.

> No, there is Github Copilot, the AI agent tool that also has autocomplete, and a chat UI. When it came out, Github Copilot was an autocomplete tool. That's it. That may be what the OP was originally using. That's what I used... 2 years ago. That they change the capabilities but don't change the name, yet change names on services that don't change capabilities further illustrates the OP's point, I would say.

That's silly. Gmail is a wildly different product than it was when it launched, but I guess it doesn't count since the name is the same?

Microsoft may or may not have a "problem" with naming, but if you're going to criticize a product, it's always a good starting place to know what you're criticizing.

Re: Claude Code is suddenly everywhere inside Microsoft

#159

Post by koakuma-chan »

GaProgMan wrote: post #64
kcb wrote: post #46

And probably running on their macbooks...

True story: a lot of the Microsoft engineers I interact with actually do use Apple hardware. Admittedly, I onto interact with the devs on the .NET (and related technologies) departments. Specifically WHY they use Apple hardware is something I can only speculate on. Presumably it's easier to launch Windows on Mac than the other way around, and they would likely need to do that as .NET and its related technologies are…

You're an MVP? Minimum viable product? Most valuable player?

Re: Claude Code is suddenly everywhere inside Microsoft

#160

Post by freedomben »

llm_nerd wrote: post #146
paxys wrote: post #138

Crazy to think that Github Copilot was the first mainstream AI coding tool. It had all the hype and momentum in the world, and Microsoft decided to do...absolutely nothing with it.

Did it have all the hype and momentum, though? It was pretty widely viewed as a low- to negative-value addition, and honestly when I see someone on here talking about how useless AI is for coding, I assume they were tainted by Github copilot and never bothered updating their priors.

just my experience of course, but it had a lot of hype. It got into a lot of people's workflow and really had a strong first mover advantage. The fact that they supported neovim as a first-class editor surely helped a ton. But then they released their next set of features without neovim support and only (IIRC) support VS Code. That took a lot of wind out of the sails. Then combined with them for some reason being on older models (or with thinking turned down or whatever), the results got less and less useful. If Co-pilot had made their agent stuff work with neovim and with a CLI, I think they'd be the clear leader.
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