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Fahrplan – 39C3

fahrplan.events.ccc.de

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Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#151

Post by jasonvorhe »

derriz wrote: post #137
jasonvorhe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, CCC is completely defanged as a political institution. They went along with contact tracing because the local app was open source and somewhat secure and many of the regulars in local spaces people will cause lots of drama if you don't wear a mask in 2025. Most local hackerspaces I visited are basically green and leftist queer safe spaces where adults run around with stuffed animals. If that's what you're looki…

> Most local hackerspaces I visited are basically green and leftist queer safe spaces where adults run around with stuffed animals. So what? You’re not being asked or expected to feel empathy - just show tolerance. Which is the easiest virtue to develop - just ignore behavior which doesn’t threaten you. If someone is doing their own thing - wearing a MAGA hat, a rainbow t-shirt or carrying a fluffy toy - it doesn’t b…

What is "so what" supposed to mean that isn't covered already by the exact sentence afterwards? Why even come at me with "tolerance" when that's exactly what I haven't been receiving, as I laid out in the paragraph you selectivity quoted. What's your point exactly?

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#152

Post by weakfish »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #49
frankzander wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this wasn't the point ... the point is that the whole thing is getting more and more political and less technical and fun. I was at the camp and some congresses in the past and they where always fun but nowadays it seems like it's like a political movement event for certain strands and ideologies and way less fun and interesting things (thou there are gems) and it seems that you have to think a certain way or at leas…

IMHO, CCC is completely defanged as a political institution. They went along with contact tracing because the local app was open source and somewhat secure and many of the regulars in local spaces people will cause lots of drama if you don't wear a mask in 2025. Most local hackerspaces I visited are basically green and leftist queer safe spaces where adults run around with stuffed animals. If that's what you're looki…

I really do appreciate your willingness to live and let live. Too many people from all perspectives are missing that ability when it comes to non-critical things, and forget that they can just… not hang out with the people they disagree with.

The other comments below you seem to be willingly ignoring that you did the mature/kind thing and just wished them well and moved on, whereas a less mature person would have caused a ruckus.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#153

Post by aleph_minus_one »

pinkgolem wrote: post #142
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The linked surveillance talk has nearly 0 references to computers and is all about media/reporting (link to the talk: https://media.ccc.de/v/34c3-8969-die_sprache_der_uberwacher ) Surveillance has relevance to core CCC/hacking topics (privacy is a central topic against which hackers fight), so I can understand why the organisers decided to include this talk in the schedule: they considered it to be a good idea that…

> Surveillance has relevance to core CCC/hacking topics (privacy is a central topic against which hackers fight) Great, who exactly is making those rules for all hackers? People have complained about this for atleast the last 15 years where I have been active, to political, not political enough. Stop complaining, start creating.

> Great, who exactly is making those rules for all hackers?

For example the Hacker Ethic by Steven Levy is very well-accepted:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hacker_ethic&oldi...

> Stop complaining, start creating.

Who says that I don't do?

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#155

Post by jasonvorhe »

weakfish wrote: post #152
jasonvorhe wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO, CCC is completely defanged as a political institution. They went along with contact tracing because the local app was open source and somewhat secure and many of the regulars in local spaces people will cause lots of drama if you don't wear a mask in 2025. Most local hackerspaces I visited are basically green and leftist queer safe spaces where adults run around with stuffed animals. If that's what you're looki…

I really do appreciate your willingness to live and let live. Too many people from all perspectives are missing that ability when it comes to non-critical things, and forget that they can just… not hang out with the people they disagree with. The other comments below you seem to be willingly ignoring that you did the mature/kind thing and just wished them well and moved on, whereas a less mature person would have cau…

Appreciate the kind response. At least someone read the entire comment before responding. :)

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#156

Post by izacus »

frankzander wrote: post #75
izacus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's really not wierd that people thinking that using secure technologies, firewalls and privacy to defend against infections on their electronics would also strongly support using a firewall to defend themselves from disease in the physical space. The fact that your opinion usually comes together with other incompatible political opinions of folks that's been running those spaces for decades doesn't help eithe…

That have to be the tolerance they're everywhere talking about

You're most likely mixing up different political communities :D

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#158

Post by holowoodman »

yc-kraln wrote: post #145
user764743 wrote: post #113

I'll never get people who say that there is too much politics at a god damn hacker conference like the CCC, considering The Chaos Computer Club was founded in 1981 specifically to be a political watchdog. more so especially since the very act of "hacking" is a political statement because it involves redistributing power over information. Code is law, remember? That would be like complaining about "too much law" at a…

Especially as congress has, for as long as I remember, been about the superset of infosec, society, art, etc. IMHO it's more along the lines of complaining about any ride that isn't a roller coaster at a theme park--no one is forcing you to go on any rides, other people clearly enjoy them, they're not taking anything away from your roller coaster, and having them increases the diversity of the crowd in an ultimately…

Congress has become a radical leftist politics playground. That is the real problem.

> Some people just like to complain that they have to take a shower and can't harass women like they used to like they could when congress was at the BCC and that kind of nonsense didn't immediately get you thrown out like today.

You could never do that. A few years ago, some activists tried to make a fuzz with stuff like creeper cards, intervention teams and codes of conduct. But those were never needed in the first place, almost nothing ever happened at CCC that would have warranted those things. But "those white male hackers are certainly sexist raping pigs" is a firmly entrenched stereotype in certain circles.

The one thing you cannot ever do is go to CCC and express any idea that isn't very far left. That is a very certain way to get thrown out. Your talk won't ever be on the Fahrplan if the topic isn't "hooray, more refugees", "hooray, more EU dictatorship" or "hooray, down with everything right of Rosa Luxemburg".

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#159

Post by dim13 »

shmeeed wrote: post #14

Me and some friends used to attend the CCC some 15-20 years ago. Back then, we just showed up at the entrance on the first day and bought our tickets there. This year we were toying with the idea of going for a revival. But man, did we underestimate how much this event has grown... Tickets in the second presale round were gone within 1-2 seconds. We didn't stand a chance. I feel like we failed the entry exam tbh. Any…

It is no longer the same. It went from somewhat exclusive dining experience to full blown nuclear junk food chain vibe.

I've stopped attending it about 10 years ago. I rather prefer to watch some few interesting topics online, and skip all the wanna-be political junk.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#160

Post by aleph_minus_one »

Sol- wrote: post #134
user764743 wrote: post #113

I'll never get people who say that there is too much politics at a god damn hacker conference like the CCC, considering The Chaos Computer Club was founded in 1981 specifically to be a political watchdog. more so especially since the very act of "hacking" is a political statement because it involves redistributing power over information. Code is law, remember? That would be like complaining about "too much law" at a…

The shape of the politics changed, though. From civil rights, questioning authority and cypherpunk, which inherently has a libertarian bent, there's now much more identity politics and social justice / grievance culture with only tenuous connections to tech. For a hacker conference, they also are pretty Luddite against new technologies like AI. It's a very conservative degrowth movement nowadays, all in all.

> For a hacker conference, they also are pretty Luddite against new technologies like AI.

Hacking was always against centralization and central control (and towards decentralization) - which is why any lecture celebrating the bigtech AI companies would strongly be against the whole culture.

While for various reasons AI is a controversial topic, I would say that if someone gave a great talk about how to decentrally train some AI model efficiently as some volunteer computing project, this would be perfectly fitting for the C3.

Addendum: There is an AI talk (as pointed out by wunderwuzzi23 at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46390959): https://events.ccc.de/congress/2025/hub/event/detail/agentic...

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