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Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

medicalxpress.com

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Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#151

Post by jibal »

Ukv wrote: post #123
jibal wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pain being a way to let you know that something is damaged is close to true--close enough not to quibble with. But fever is not a way to let you know that foreign bodies are being killed off--that's his claim, and it's wrong.

> But fever is not a way to let you know that foreign bodies are being killed off--that's his claim, and it's wrong. querez's point is that the sentence is meant to be parsed as: > pain and fever which are the bodies way of > and > respectively So the claim is that fever is the body's way of killing off unknown foreign bodies, not the body's way of letting you know something is killing off unknown foreign bodies.

The fact that one can ferret out what someone perhaps meant to say from what they did say doesn't change the fact that what they did say was wrong, and can be rightly criticized for being wrong. Someone else responded to such a criticism by writing "He said that" -- but that is false.

And I would make the point that these two things are not analogous, so they shouldn't be mentioned together in any case. The response to the misstatement that started this subthread was "I think what they're saying here is that you're not just suppressing a symptom, you're suppressing a sickness fighting mechanism", which is exactly right, along with a subsequent statement "Fever isn't just a symptom. It's a defense mechanism. The idea is that use of antipyretic drugs may make the infection worse" and which the misstatement completely muddies. It's weird how some people who didn't even make the misleading misstatement are so desperately trying to defend it for no good reason, while others are rationally pointing out how the statement is off the mark. Even with the edit, the statement serves no purpose, mixing up symptoms like pain that guide us psychologically with autonomic immune system responses.

I will say no more about this dead horse.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#152

Post by Ukv »

jibal wrote: post #151
Ukv wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But fever is not a way to let you know that foreign bodies are being killed off--that's his claim, and it's wrong. querez's point is that the sentence is meant to be parsed as: > pain and fever which are the bodies way of > and > respectively So the claim is that fever is the body's way of killing off unknown foreign bodies, not the body's way of letting you know something is killing off unknown foreign bodies.

The fact that one can ferret out what someone perhaps meant to say from what they did say doesn't change the fact that what they did say was wrong, and can be rightly criticized for being wrong. Someone else responded to such a criticism by writing "He said that" -- but that is false . And I would make the point that these two things are not analogous , so they shouldn't be mentioned together in any case. The respons…

> The fact that one can ferret out what someone perhaps meant to say from what they did say doesn't change the fact that what they did say was wrong, and can be rightly criticized for being wrong.

kruffalon said something ambiguous, with the intended interpretation (of that ambiguous part) being true and a secondary unintended interpretation being false - both interpretations grammatically valid.

querez tried to clarify the misinterpretation being made, but it looked as though their point was missed so I made it more explicit.

> It's weird how some people who didn't even make the misleading misstatement are so desperately trying to defend it for no good reason

I just saw some confusion so chimed in to try to clear it up. Only motive is that I feel like it's useful in a discussion for people to know what others mean, rather than arguing against a phantom point caused by miscommunication.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#153

Post by germandiago »

incompatible wrote: post #65
germandiago wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure how dangerous it is. Not saying it is not but maybe hyperbole. I have been hearing this and the climate change stuff since I was young as a threat to humans and I think there must be a lot more than science in here, at least, in my humble opinion.

Flu has a long track record in causing pandemics with new variants, e.g., the Spanish flu in 1918–1920. Outbreaks spread much faster now thanks to air travel. We do have the advantages of P2 masks and mRNA vaccines.

Which was not spanish, by the way.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#154

Post by AlexeyBelov »

nikolay wrote: post #95
ladyanita22 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is not like the others

I agree - stoicism is almost fully extinct. Modern people are a bunch of whiners.

Whining about "people these days" is very, very ironic.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#155

Post by srean »

ehnto wrote: post #112
srean wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broken bones? A broken femur or a shin is hell.

Yeah it was pretty painful at first and at different times. Never like in tears pain though, just very distracting. I have broken two fingers and two collarbones, at different times, and a toe! Both collarbones were fully smashed to bits but did not pierce the skin, I had bruising for months. I have an above average tolerance but I think what really helps is pain management techniques, which I believe can help all of…

Is higher tolerance to pain even a real thing ?

I have been told that I have that, but I don't think it feels any less painful. It's not possible to know. I feel I am just a little accepting of it.

Broken femur is almost a different league though.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#156

Post by 0dayz »

qcnguy wrote: post #133
0dayz wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any source on these claims?

Research any history of the flu vaccines, Hoskins effect, why there's no vaccine against the common cold etc.

Hoskins effect does not seem to have that profound effect on influenza[1].

And the common cold is due to how diverse and mutating the common cold virus is.

[1]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9796045/#:~:text=Data%20on%2...

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#157

Post by ehnto »

srean wrote: post #155
ehnto wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it was pretty painful at first and at different times. Never like in tears pain though, just very distracting. I have broken two fingers and two collarbones, at different times, and a toe! Both collarbones were fully smashed to bits but did not pierce the skin, I had bruising for months. I have an above average tolerance but I think what really helps is pain management techniques, which I believe can help all of…

Is higher tolerance to pain even a real thing ? I have been told that I have that, but I don't think it feels any less painful. It's not possible to know. I feel I am just a little accepting of it. Broken femur is almost a different league though.

I have the same thought, it must be as it's accounted for in medical practice, but also how would I know? I only have my subjective experience to go by.

I think it is important to accept everyone's own experience of their pain though, I have no idea what someone else is feeling even if I have experienced the same event. Their experience and what they feel could be vastly different, our nervous systems behaving vastly different. It is not a morale failing to feel and be affected by pain.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#158

Post by srean »

ehnto wrote: post #157
srean wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is higher tolerance to pain even a real thing ? I have been told that I have that, but I don't think it feels any less painful. It's not possible to know. I feel I am just a little accepting of it. Broken femur is almost a different league though.

I have the same thought, it must be as it's accounted for in medical practice, but also how would I know? I only have my subjective experience to go by. I think it is important to accept everyone's own experience of their pain though, I have no idea what someone else is feeling even if I have experienced the same event. Their experience and what they feel could be vastly different, our nervous systems behaving vastly…

Indeed.

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#159

Post by je00065 »

dosbod wrote: post #106

I wonder if Tryptase affects Avian flu as well. Anyone know? I'd also argue my partner and I got Avian flu one Xmas from eating free range eggs when there was an Avian flu pandemic up the road from them in Norfolk and the British Govt ordered culls. Tryptase: "A striking finding was decreased tryptase content in mast cells with copper overload, whereas copper starvation increased tryptase content." [1] [1] https://pm…

Tryptase:

"A striking finding was decreased tryptase content in mast cells with copper overload, whereas copper starvation increased tryptase content." [1]

Interesting copper-binding metalchaperone metal homeostasis project advertised at Durham. https://www.findaphd.com/phds/project/how-do-copper-binding-...

'The wrong metal in the wrong enzyme is toxic.'

Re: Bird flu viruses are resistant to fever, making them a major threat to humans

#160

Post by je00065 »

dosbod wrote: post #106

I wonder if Tryptase affects Avian flu as well. Anyone know? I'd also argue my partner and I got Avian flu one Xmas from eating free range eggs when there was an Avian flu pandemic up the road from them in Norfolk and the British Govt ordered culls. Tryptase: "A striking finding was decreased tryptase content in mast cells with copper overload, whereas copper starvation increased tryptase content." [1] [1] https://pm…

[2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC33880/

I also wonder, by virtue of being a single strand of RNA, how long does it take for mutations to make the virus no longer viable in the environment it resides in?

Jul 13, 2021 Possible impact on hospitalisations from different R rate scenarios #TheDailyTelegraph

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