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First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

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Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#151

Post by ghosty141 »

theshackleford wrote: post #129
bena wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, people think they can "fight" it, but you can't. That stuff will knock you out. The counting is just so they know when you're out.

It’s generally very quick, but I suppose not perfect as on one occasion, they had to give me some additional kind of injection because for some reason, I was still awake. The guy doing it seemed confused. With whatever he did additionally, as he did it he goes: “Let’s try this again, start counting back from 10” I might have made it to 9 the second time around. Does this mean they messed up the dosage or something? I…

Humans react differently or have different tolerances, for example my teeth are very sensitive to pain and I needed extra adrenaline to fully numb it, even though I don't take drugs or have anything indicating that this would be necessary.

Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#152

Post by fortran77 »

lordnacho wrote: post #50
tirant wrote: post #15

I have lost consciousness several times in my life. Not a pleasurable experience specially as last time I did it because of such extreme pain that I thought I was passing away. However I have had always recollection of those seconds or minutes when I was unconscious: there was always an intense and quick succession of memories and images accompanied by sound. At some point the external sound from people trying to rea…

For contrast, when I was put under with propofol for surgery, there was nothing. I thought I would gently fall asleep, but it was actually extremely fast. It went from "tell me about your life" which the anesthetist uses to check your state to "oh so came here for uni..." to "huh the surgery is over" in a single cut. Nothing in between, nothing like that thing you feel when before you fall asleep at night or wake up…

They usually ask me to "count backwards from 10". I don't think I get down to 0. It's _very_ fast.

Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#153

Post by paufernandez »

iso1631 wrote: post #82
tirant wrote: post #15

I have lost consciousness several times in my life. Not a pleasurable experience specially as last time I did it because of such extreme pain that I thought I was passing away. However I have had always recollection of those seconds or minutes when I was unconscious: there was always an intense and quick succession of memories and images accompanied by sound. At some point the external sound from people trying to rea…

I got knocked off my bike about 20 years ago and was unconcious long enough that an ambulance had arrived. I don't remember a thing between seeing the car pull out infront of me and waking up on the floor looking at the ambulance.

Same here, I flew head first down a ramp because I slammed the breakes too hard and the next thing I remember is people asking if anybody had a handkerchief or something, since my head was bleeding. A solid five minute blackout.

Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#154

Post by neilv »

gausswho wrote: post #74
VagabundoP wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anesthetics are very weird though. There's still a lot we don't know about how they work. They seem to act like you experienced, complete shutdown, for most people, which seems different from the states that people go into when unconscious or are near death usually. And some people have a very different experience while under them - they are fully aware.

I had heard something unsettling about anesthesia that I could use verification or debunking. The gist was that modern implementations suppress memory formation rather than induce unconsciousness. That you remain in some sense aware of what's happening but don't remember the experience. This is safer than traditional methods, but could potentially subject the patient to complex mental or emotional trauma. Is that acc…

I also heard that. It was said by a physician (IIRC, from a Boston hospital), who was sitting in on Marvin Minsky's class at MIT, circa 2000.

Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#155

Post by m463 »

lordnacho wrote: post #50
tirant wrote: post #15

I have lost consciousness several times in my life. Not a pleasurable experience specially as last time I did it because of such extreme pain that I thought I was passing away. However I have had always recollection of those seconds or minutes when I was unconscious: there was always an intense and quick succession of memories and images accompanied by sound. At some point the external sound from people trying to rea…

For contrast, when I was put under with propofol for surgery, there was nothing. I thought I would gently fall asleep, but it was actually extremely fast. It went from "tell me about your life" which the anesthetist uses to check your state to "oh so came here for uni..." to "huh the surgery is over" in a single cut. Nothing in between, nothing like that thing you feel when before you fall asleep at night or wake up…

I had a procedure recently and the description in the preparation instructions said "you won't be asleep, but you might not remember everything"

I talked to the nurse about this as I was prepping for the procedure, and he said that a recent patient talked throughout the procedure, but when he got back to his room afterwards, he asked "so when will the procedure start?"

So, I think the drugs you get might let experience everything. But the "nothing in between" might actually be memory loss, not loss of consciousness.

all this stuff is spooky and philosophically tricky.

Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#156

Post by mikestew »

btilly wrote: post #95
exe34 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you just beating up a bully will mean some other kid(s) will get beaten up (or beaten up even more) further down the line oh you need to convince them that more beatings would be forthcoming if they step out of line again.

This idea is naively appealing, but is not backed up by research. Closely related, corporal punishment results in kids who are more likely to try to get their way through violence. Though they'll also take care not to be caught doing so. This is one of the big reasons why psychologists argue against using corporal punishment.

So what is your suggested solution? Myself and several other commenters know an effective solution that you’ve poop-pooed, so offer something better.

Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#157

Post by exe34 »

btilly wrote: post #95
exe34 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you just beating up a bully will mean some other kid(s) will get beaten up (or beaten up even more) further down the line oh you need to convince them that more beatings would be forthcoming if they step out of line again.

This idea is naively appealing, but is not backed up by research. Closely related, corporal punishment results in kids who are more likely to try to get their way through violence. Though they'll also take care not to be caught doing so. This is one of the big reasons why psychologists argue against using corporal punishment.

from figures in authority, yes. but in practise, bullies respond very well to a bigger bully. it's the entire basis of government - the monopoly on violence.

Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#158

Post by ttcbj »

vermilingua wrote: post #2

I’m sure there would be a long line of willing terminal and euthanasia patients who would join a study to record their final moments, I’m surprised this hasn’t been done yet.

I agree. I read an article a few months ago about how frequent MAID (medical assistance in dying) is in Canada. I am surprised that that has not led to larger scale studies about the dying process.

In this particular case, the press release notes "Scientifically, it's very difficult to interpret the data because the brain had suffered bleeding, seizures, swelling...". That does seem to limit how much can be generalized from this one case. A larger study of MAID patients would be more useful.

Edit: Maybe the issue is that the MAID itself would alter the brain state. That actually seems pretty plausible.

Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#159

Post by observationist »

squidsoup wrote: post #150

In the 90s, psychiatrist Rick Strassman proposed in his book DMT: The Spirit Molecule that large quantities of DMT (an endogenous psychoactive substance), are released into the brain upon death. I don't know that we have any clear evidence of this, but its certainly an interesting perspective on what might account for near death, and death experiences.

Traumatic events, like NDEs, tend to come with lots of adrenaline, stress hormones, and a cocktail of neurotransmitters that could have the secondary consequence of slowing overall monoamine oxidation, similar to MAOIs, resulting in longer effective exposure to any chemicals like DMT that would normally be transient.

You at most have around 250 μg in your system, you need at least 40 times that to get to the lower threshold of a psychedelic effect. If other factors are in play, and it doesn't get immediately metabolized because of everything else consuming the MAO supply, then it's plausible that there could be an effect.

If that were the case, then you're looking at a potential last-ditch survival mechanism, reinforcing the experience and "fuzzing" the memory for maximum impact.

Re: First recording of a dying human brain shows waves similar to memory flashbacks (2022)

#160

Post by mr_toad »

mikkupikku wrote: post #139
btilly wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea is naively appealing, but is not backed up by research. Closely related, corporal punishment results in kids who are more likely to try to get their way through violence. Though they'll also take care not to be caught doing so. This is one of the big reasons why psychologists argue against using corporal punishment.

Fighting back worked a hell of a lot better than anything the "responsible" adults could ever suggest. School teachers, councilors, my mother, etc, all gave useless advice. My dad told me to fight back. When I finally listened to him, that's when the bullying stopped. I lost that fight, but won the war so to speak. Telling kids not to fight back is a terrible cowardly thing to do, the adults who do that are either ob…

Sure, if you fight back, the bully is less likely to pick on you. They’ll just pick on the next weakest kid instead.
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