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PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

pyfound.blogspot.com

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#151
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DEI is an immoral, hate based and anti-truth ideology. Much of the DEI work stems from people looking around a decade or so ago at tech conferences, and noticing that they were almost entirely comprised of men. There's way too much to address in a single comment, so I'll share one specific thing the Python community has done over the past ten+ years that's made a world of difference: The talk proposal process has b…

PSF made their own choice based on their own politics and optics. Note that requirements had nothing against diversity or fairness. It was fairly specific: "discriminatory equity ideology in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws." DEI was weaponized in the USA, where in quite a few instances, people couldn't get promoted or hired because of their race (typically white or asian). It was about preferential trea…

> Note that requirements had nothing against diversity or fairness. It was fairly specific: "discriminatory equity ideology in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws."

Are we reading the same thing? You are quoting something that says that the PSF's standard DEI policies are a violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws, which the PSF does not agree with, and likely no court would ever agree with.

Compliance with law is always mandatory, but by signing a contract that misstates the law and in fact endorses a particular and incorrect interperation of the law, means that actually litigating the law correctly lately in the courts is harder.

Further, by carrying out the PSF's existing policies, the PSF is carrying ou their principles, rather than your derisive and inaccurate characterization of that as mere "optics."

> I am all for diversity, I am all for fairness,

If you were actually for those things, you'd be for what the PSF does! That's what they do! Instead you are supporting the oppression of those things with your comment.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am going to add my own stronger language than yours: if you don’t feel positively about diversity, equity, and inclusion, then you are sending a message that you instead support homogeneity, inequity, and exclusion. This "if you're not for us you're against us" is a very broken way of thinking. It excludes the many, many more people just don't care about diversity and want the best people in a role regardless of…

The issue is more complex. If groups of people are disadvantaged from birth and then throughout their life, it's unlikely they will be the best at anything. But you could imagine that the person with the best potential was part of that group. In effect, an unjust society that doesn't allow fair equal opportunities from birth and throughout life is sub-optimal at yielding the best candidates for any given role, as it…

This complex discussion does exist, you’re right.

At the same time, this complex discussion is not what the present administration is engaging in.

At best they are using it as a cover story.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#153
post #126
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> DEI is an immoral, hate based and anti-truth ideology. Much of the DEI work stems from people looking around a decade or so ago at tech conferences, and noticing that they were almost entirely comprised of men. There's way too much to address in a single comment, so I'll share one specific thing the Python community has done over the past ten+ years that's made a world of difference: The talk proposal process has b…

>> The talk proposal process has been standardized so identifying information is hidden in the first round of reviews

Making the talk proposal process blind seems more like meritocracy than DEI. The people opposing DEI [claim to] want qualifications to matter and race/gender/whatever issues not to.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#154
post #310

[stub for offtopicness / flamewarness / guideline-breakingness] (this is a rough cut - I know there are other posts left in the thread that arguably belong here, but this time I'm in a bit of a rush) (please, everyone, you can make substantive points thoughtfully but do so within the guardrails at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html - avoid the generic-indignant-flamey-snarky-namecalley-hardcore-battley…

[flagged]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#155

So, all these clauses where changed back in Feb/ March. They definitely had to agree to the amendments on their grants, and they still had funding until October 1st. So, I feel like this is revisionist history because they would have been notified way before today to renew thier grant. So they signed the amendments and spent the money...

It's not a renewal, it's their first application for government funding, and they turned it down without accepting the terms. This is all quite clear in the blog post.

[deleted]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#157
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discriminatory equity ideology Isn't that when you let your mates buy into your corrupt private investment vehicles for cheap?

I have no idea what point you think you're making, but this happens all the time. Do you really think you should be obligated to let strangers buy into your private business?

Ah yeah you're right. What they actually mean is that DEI is when you build so many equity preference multiples into your term sheets the employee option pool becomes entirely worthless.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#158
post #29

This isn't good for the PSF, but if these "poison pill" terms are a pattern that applies to all NSF and (presumably) other government research funding, the entire state of modern scientific research is at risk. Regardless of how you, as an individual, might feel about "DEI," imposing onerous political terms on scientific grants harms everyone in the long term.

Also, I don't get that an Organization such as the PSF operates at a $5 million dollar budget which quite arguably provides Billions or even Trillions in revenue across the Tech sector.

[flagged]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#159
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This "if you're not for us you're against us" is a very broken way of thinking. This is the paradox of tolerance is invoked. The people in the present administration have been blowing white supremacist and pro-violence dog whistles for over a decade now. If you are “with that” then yes, you are against us. This is not to say that I am intending to be hostile and unwelcoming to those who have been deceived by this r…

> The people in the present administration have been blowing white supremacist and pro-violence dog whistles for over a decade now. I think this is in itself a huge problem. You've been told this, repeatedly, for 10 years, which explains why so much of the political violence (and celebration thereof) is on the left in the US. Why do you still believe dogwhistles to be a bigger problem than actual violence?

I haven’t been told this, I have witnessed it as a primary source. I watched Trump tell cops that they should rough up suspects. I watched Trump tell the January 6 crowd that they need to fight like hell or they’ll lose this country. I watched Trumpers erect gallows for Mike Pence. I watched Trump tell the Proud Boys to stand back and stand by like they were his personal goon squad. I watched Trump say that second amendment people could help stop his opposition.

This “violence on the left” that you speak of, I haven’t personally seen a whole lot of it.

No Kings was the largest protest in American history and not a single person was arrested for any protest infraction in New York City. The NYPD publicly announced it.

How many people wearing Joe Biden hats breached the capitol? Is there any left-wing violence in the past few decades of America that you would call more extreme than breaking into the capitol building?

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#160
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This "if you're not for us you're against us" is a very broken way of thinking. This is the paradox of tolerance is invoked. The people in the present administration have been blowing white supremacist and pro-violence dog whistles for over a decade now. If you are “with that” then yes, you are against us. This is not to say that I am intending to be hostile and unwelcoming to those who have been deceived by this r…

> The people in the present administration have been blowing white supremacist and pro-violence dog whistles for over a decade now. I think this is in itself a huge problem. You've been told this, repeatedly, for 10 years, which explains why so much of the political violence (and celebration thereof) is on the left in the US. Why do you still believe dogwhistles to be a bigger problem than actual violence?

"so much of the political violence (and celebration thereof) is on the left in the US"

Biiiiiiiig citation needed. By every available metric, right-wing terror attacks dominate the political violence numbers in the US. I don't know what fantasy world you've been living in, but frankly it sounds pretty sweet to me.

And mass violence is a worse problem than targeted violence. Whether or not you think they deserved it, the notable cases of left-wing violence in the last year have been individual targets. When the right commits violence, they roll up to a synagogue and gun down everyone inside. Or a gay nightclub. Or they slam a couple planes into buildings (yeah, if you're going to lump the left together, then you can't complain when the right gets lumped together).

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