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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

bbc.com

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#151

Post by mschuster91 »

mrtksn wrote: post #142
yard2010 wrote: post #82

[flagged]

> One can only dream about such a judicial system that puts criminals behind the bars even if they are very very VIP. Rule of law is what makes the difference between real democracies and AliExpress ones. Unfortunately, the trend for more rule based order has reversed. European governments are all struggling when the "who cares about rules" governments are full steam ahead. Even if they have net negative approval, th…

> Thankfully, the world isn't made just from "the west", so I guess its not the end for the humanity - yet.

"Humanity" as in "the species homo sapiens sapiens", yes, that will survive.

But "humanity" as in "societies ruled by foundational human rights and democracy"? Not if Trump's USA, China, Russia and Modi's India have their will.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#152

Post by n4r9 »

rat9988 wrote: post #141
tauwauwau wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poor society that cannot maintain (afford to keep) it's promise to be civil to all citizens.

> Law doesn't seek to punish Then who is tasked with delivering justice to the victims?

Must justice include punishment? If someone hits me, I'd much rather they take responsibility, apologise, and work on themselves to become a better person, than simply get locked up for a while.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#153

Post by thrance »

gnfargbl wrote: post #148
thrance wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

No high horse here, I promise you. I'm not French and I didn't know much in detail about Sarkozy before this, but being convicted of taking political campaign donations from the architect of the Lockerbie bombing is more than enough to make me think he's not a good guy. If you tell me he did a lot of other bad stuff as well, I believe you. I'm just pointing out that the golden rule requires us to offer human rights e…

I understand, I do believe in the golden rule. I would not wish physical punishment on the guy, I am merely wishing for him to experience the same terrible living conditions he helped create. Let a man savour justice, for however long is lasts. He'll probably get to go home in a few weeks with an electronic bracelet anyway, and then move in and out of his home freely, as no one enforces these rules on the powerful.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#154

Post by cudgy »

thrance wrote: post #145
gnfargbl wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article 3 ECHR should prevent the prison authorities from putting any prisoner in a position where they know he's going to "get roughed up". You and I both want that right for ourselves, so surely we should also extend it to Sarzoky?

[flagged]

How is calling for equal and humane treatment of prisoners high and righteous? You are recommending targeted abuse for certain prisoners that goes beyond the sentence imposed by a court. Maybe a better way of stating it is that you are low and unjust.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#155

Post by mrtksn »

mschuster91 wrote: post #151
mrtksn wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One can only dream about such a judicial system that puts criminals behind the bars even if they are very very VIP. Rule of law is what makes the difference between real democracies and AliExpress ones. Unfortunately, the trend for more rule based order has reversed. European governments are all struggling when the "who cares about rules" governments are full steam ahead. Even if they have net negative approval, th…

> Thankfully, the world isn't made just from "the west", so I guess its not the end for the humanity - yet. "Humanity" as in "the species homo sapiens sapiens", yes, that will survive. But "humanity" as in "societies ruled by foundational human rights and democracy"? Not if Trump's USA, China, Russia and Modi's India have their will.

So? That part of the world used to be the leading civilizations for centuries. Maybe its their turn again.

Personally I don't have problem with that, my stuck is with the decay of the west. I like the European way of life, makes me sad to think that it might be coming to an end and that the rest of my life I will have to care deeply about the implications of geopolitics and power instead of more important things higher in the Maslow pyramid.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#156

Post by ivann »

lucasRW wrote: post #109
ivann wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Red judge myth"is, well, a myth. And Fillon's case was very clear and he had all the reason to be prosecuted.

No it's not. A majority of judges belong the the "Syndicat de la Magistrature", a communist-leaning organization ( https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicat_de_la_magistrature ) which even participates (despite the supposed "independance" it should abide by) to the Communist Party's annual conference ("Fete de l'Huma"). COMMUNIST, not "socialist". Furthermore, many organizations and known figures of the french magistrat…

Your own link said it 33%, so not the majority. A union has no obligation of "independence". Being member of a union does not mean you agree with everything, just that you think it's the best to defend your interests. The "Fête de l’Huma" is not the Communist Party's annual conference but it is indeed left leaning. There is no need to write communist in all caps, it's not an insult. For your last point you'll need to provide sources.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#157

Post by thrance »

cudgy wrote: post #154
thrance wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How is calling for equal and humane treatment of prisoners high and righteous? You are recommending targeted abuse for certain prisoners that goes beyond the sentence imposed by a court. Maybe a better way of stating it is that you are low and unjust.

[flagged]

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#158

Post by dotancohen »

Razengan wrote: post #135
pavlov wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Nordic countries, that's just a regular jail cell. Except the fridge I guess.

They're cold enough there

I spent a week in a hostel in Norway (Trumso). The room has a refrigerator, but no freezer. The food to be kept frozen was put on the shelf hanging outside the window.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#159

Post by throw101010 »

_ache_ wrote: post #59
boltzmann-brain wrote: post #12

oh I wish the American people were this brave

France population isn't very better, I can assure you, it's not about been brave. We just still have a working judiciary system. But for how long? It barely correctly financed and his independence his attacked every days in the oligarchy controlled medias. I hope you fix your judiciary system one day.

Sarkozy himself tried to reform it and remove a key position in that system the "juge d'instruction" who conducts investigations indepedantly of the executive power in complex cases (like his many cases). It makes the procedures much more efficient and less prone to influence from the government.

Fortunately he failed to do it when he was in power, and this is in my opinion a big factor in his current demise.

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