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Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

ruby-lang.org

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Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#151

Post by saghm »

Mystery-Machine wrote: post #132
mring33621 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So this whole thing stems from a dislike of DHH? It also seems like rubygems.org could simply fork the rubygems code, perform whatever 'security and governance' changes they believed were needed in their fork, and run with that? Isn't that the open source way of handling disagreements in direction?

It seems like it stems from dislike of André

As best I've been able to understand it, a dislike of DHH led to the opportunity for those with a dislike of André to do all the stuff under discussion. I doubt we'll ever know the whole story, but in the absence of any of the additional context that some people claim exists (but haven't made public), this seems to be the most coherent explanation for what happened.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#152

Post by Mystery-Machine »

claudiug wrote: post #142
jcmfernandes wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What wasn't factual in Joel's comment?

it paints all the stuff like is one person fault. omits to tell like stuff like - gem.coop -> the person behind have a new tool rv that want to sell it - they want to sell the rubygems logs to corporatins - change the root pass at aws once they where remove from the project small details like this.

Oh, I didn't know that André wants to sell gem.coop and/or rv. Can you please point me to more info about where this intention to sell gem.coop and/or rv was mentioned?

They want to sell some RubyGems logs about corporations (not individuals) using RubyGems API, to...Ruby Central?

As André explained on his site, he was on-call at the time when they were removing him. He acted to protect the service by limiting access. No harmful actions done by him were ever discovered by Ruby Central. It's two entities fighting to remove the other. You can say Ruby Central was right, I can say André was right. But we do know that Ruby Central fired the first shot when they (could've been an actual hacker) removed literally everyone from RubyGems and Bundler projects.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#153

Post by ameliaquining »

saghm wrote: post #144
ameliaquining wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is missing an important part of the story that makes the Ruby Central side look relatively better, which is that one of the existing maintainers offered to help fill the funding gap in exchange for being allowed to monetize the server logs. https://rubycentral.org/news/rubygems-org-aws-root-access-ev...

Your addition also misses an important part where the only reason he was able to do that was because the servers were forcibly taken from the previous owners for the ostensible purpose of security, but the new regime forgot to change the passwords as part of that. At this point, it's probable that any attempt to just list the pertinent events isn't going to end up being as neutral as one might hope because even the c…

That's not accurate; the monetization proposal happened before the revocation of permissions. The controversy about various accesses that may or may not have been unauthorized (depending on whose story you believe) came later.

Perfect neutrality is unachievable but that doesn't mean that every possible way of presenting the facts is equally valid, or even that it's impossible to distinguish presentations that are or aren't missing important context (see, e.g., the surprising success of Twitter's Community Notes).

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#154

Post by JoshTriplett »

nxor wrote: post #103
xg19837 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. At least Ruby was always strongly Japanese though. In Python European and Asian developers are overtly exploited, with U.S. corporations and their employed stooges holding the reins of power. I'm considering switching to Erlang, which was developed at a corporation from the start and appears to be drama and cancel free.

Or Europeans choose to work for US corporations. What am I missing? I know Europeans who only want to work for American companies.

American salaries are typically wildly higher, both on the low end and on the high end. It's often remote work. There are more jobs and more variety of jobs, on an absolute scale, than any particular locality. There may be more of a job ladder, and less stigma to wanting to climb it. There are some other cultural aspects as well.

I would love to see such options become available in Europe (insofar as additional options existing, not taking away the ones that already exist). But that would require some extremely successful European companies working to change it.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#155

Post by jcmfernandes »

claudiug wrote: post #142
jcmfernandes wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What wasn't factual in Joel's comment?

it paints all the stuff like is one person fault. omits to tell like stuff like - gem.coop -> the person behind have a new tool rv that want to sell it - they want to sell the rubygems logs to corporatins - change the root pass at aws once they where remove from the project small details like this.

Let's say all of that is true. Did or didn't RC perform a hostile takeover of the repos?

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#156

Post by ameliaquining »

kragen wrote: post #146
shadowgovt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The broad-strokes story is: * DHH said some things on his blog that some people believe to be deeply racist / fascist (not going to unpack whether they were or not because answering that question is irrelevant to the fact pattern; consult other threads for that debate). * A Ruby conference run by Ruby Central was asked to deplatform him. Since he's the creator of Rails, they declined. * In response to their decision,…

But Ruby Core is not the same thing as Ruby Central, apparently? This blog post says, "To provide the community with long-term stability and continuity, the Ruby core team, led by Matz, has decided to assume stewardship of these projects from Ruby Central. We will continue their development in close collaboration with Ruby Central and the broader community." What, if anything, is the relationshp between Ruby Core and…

There is none. gem.coop is run by people who were previously involved with RubyGems and Bundler before they were ousted or resigned; AFAIK none of those people are part of Ruby Core.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#157

Post by lyu07282 »

monooso wrote: post #60
lyu07282 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes without saying that Ruby Central doesn't think Ruby Central has ever lost any trust to begin with.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but the discussion is about the phrase "hostile entity", not about a loss of trust.

That really doesn't matter. I think what happened could be described as "hostility" towards the community, that's what my impression was, it was appearing like a hostile takeover of the github repositories/organization with no discussion, no community involvement, no transparency. Obviously not everybody will agree especially not people working at Ruby Central.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#158

Post by jaredcwhite »

busterarm wrote: post #109
shevy-java wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I think we have to wait and see how much momentum gem.coop can build. Right now they have promised "things for the future"; they will most likely also deliver eventually. But right now they are not there. If and when they open beta, though, I'll begin to republish my old gems (not all, some I merged into other gems but most of the core stuff will be back) there. They have some things they should improve on th…

Even if you're not an old-timer and don't remember what Ruby Together was like, the AWS root password changing shenanigans, presumably done by Arko, is enough of a red flag that nothing he's associated with has any credibility. No serious business with real (business) customers will accept that kind of risk and gem.coop will never be a thing outside of hobbyists.

Oh I can assure you, it will be a thing.

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#159

Post by majkinetor »

ameliaquining wrote: post #87
shadowgovt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The broad-strokes story is: * DHH said some things on his blog that some people believe to be deeply racist / fascist (not going to unpack whether they were or not because answering that question is irrelevant to the fact pattern; consult other threads for that debate). * A Ruby conference run by Ruby Central was asked to deplatform him. Since he's the creator of Rails, they declined. * In response to their decision,…

This is missing an important part of the story that makes the Ruby Central side look relatively better, which is that one of the existing maintainers offered to help fill the funding gap in exchange for being allowed to monetize the server logs. https://rubycentral.org/news/rubygems-org-aws-root-access-ev...

How do you monetize the server logs ?

Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler

#160

Post by kragen »

ameliaquining wrote: post #156
kragen wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Ruby Core is not the same thing as Ruby Central, apparently? This blog post says, "To provide the community with long-term stability and continuity, the Ruby core team, led by Matz, has decided to assume stewardship of these projects from Ruby Central. We will continue their development in close collaboration with Ruby Central and the broader community." What, if anything, is the relationshp between Ruby Core and…

There is none. gem.coop is run by people who were previously involved with RubyGems and Bundler before they were ousted or resigned; AFAIK none of those people are part of Ruby Core.

Thank you for explaining!
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