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Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

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Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#151

Post by input_sh »

zahlman wrote: post #104
input_sh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're never gonna let you upload and run your own executable files to their infrastructure. That + latency with MIDI devices is why every DAW-in-a-browser is just a toy.

... VSTs are executable code?

Considering when the standard was written (v2 in 1999 and v3 in 2008), what else would they be?

As horrible as it sounds, a VST is just a .dll file you're running straight from the Internet. On a "positive" note, they're backwards-compatible with like Windows Vista!

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#152

Post by j4coh »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #132
jjmarr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the same process as AI-assisted coding. Or AI-assisted writing. Or AI-assisted anything.

We use AI assisted coding to be more productive or to do boring stuff. If the 'making the music' part is what you are getting away from, why make music? You're basically a shitty 'producer' (decent producers are amazing at those boring parts you are skipping and can fill out a track without hitting up a robot) at that point.

With art and AI, people seem to enjoy the part where they say they made something and get credit for it, but didn’t actually have to bother. People used to find art of people on the internet and claim it as their own, now an AI can statistically generate it for you and it maybe feels a bit less icky. Though I have to agree it all seems sort of pointless, like buying trophies for sports you didn’t play.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#153

Post by j4coh »

visarga wrote: post #128
vunderba wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you enjoy it, I'd leave it at that - that's all that matters. It's a pretty absurd claim to say that learning Suno is no different than learning a musical instrument. My 8 year old nephew was cranking out "songs" in Suno within an hour of being introduced to it. Reminds me of when parents were super impressed that their 3-year old could use an iPad. Generative tools (visual, auditory, etc.) can serve as powerful t…

> My 8 year old nephew was cranking out "songs" in Suno within an hour of being introduced to it. Reminds me of when parents were super impressed that their 3-year old could use an iPad. You imply "it is Prompt -> Song" but in reality it is "Prompt -> Song -> Reflection -> New Prompt -> New Song.." It is a dialogue. And in a dialogue you can get some places where neither of you could go alone. As software developers…

It’s really not. It’s like having interdimensional Spotify where you can describe any song and they will pull it up from whatever dimension made it and play it for you. It may empower you as a consumer but it does not make you a creator.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#154

Post by radley »

_DeadFred_ wrote: post #132
jjmarr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the same process as AI-assisted coding. Or AI-assisted writing. Or AI-assisted anything.

We use AI assisted coding to be more productive or to do boring stuff. If the 'making the music' part is what you are getting away from, why make music? You're basically a shitty 'producer' (decent producers are amazing at those boring parts you are skipping and can fill out a track without hitting up a robot) at that point.

Music is math. Art is patterns. Like how we're using AI to iterate through design and code, musicians could use it for generating musical patterns including chords, harmonies, melodies, and rhythms. In theory, it can pull up and manipulate instruments and effects based on description rather than rifling through file names and parameters (i.e. the boring stuff).

Most success as a musician stems from developing a unique style, having a unique timbre, and/or writing creative lyrics. Whether a coder, designer, artist, or musician, the best creatives start by practicing the patterns of those who came before. But most will never stand out and just follow existing patterns.

AI is nothing more than mixing together existing patterns, so it's not necessarily bad. Some people just want to play around and get a result. Others will want to learn from it to find their own thing. Either way works.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#155

Post by ab5tract »

keithba wrote: post #126
ares623 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The year is 2027. A 16 year old at a house party pulls out his laptop and asks his friends to gather round. He starts typing “a song about a wonderful wall” and completely original music starts playing. A girl in the corner, hearing the heartfelt melody, starts to fall for the boy.

I made an image, then a video of this…it felt cute https://limewire.com/d/ShyFU#hGrEzdZegs

TIL that the lime still wires

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#156

Post by j4coh »

npinsker wrote: post #116
songeater wrote: post #107

Tools like Suno are fundamentally enabling. I'm about 40 years old and never "had the music" - not for lack of trying (music lessons at a young age)... but could never carry a tune or keep rhythm. I suppose its what being dyslexic feels like. If I were educated in a culture where music was fundamentally as important as reading or math, I suppose would have spent enough hours on it to eventually be passable... but I g…

I see it as like having the answer key to every homework assignment for a course. It's easy to convince yourself that it doesn't hurt learning -- but there's probably a reason the answers aren't given to you. The struggle, the experience of "being stuck", the ability to understand why things don't work -- may be necessary precursors to true understanding. We're seeing pretty discouraging results from people who are l…

I guess it’s similar to learning by watching masters on YouTube - I’m convinced that passively watching them causes the illusion in the viewer that they are also capable of the same, but if they were to actually try they miss all the little details and experience that makes their performance possible. Watching a chess GM play, for example, can make you feel like you understand what’s happening but if you don’t actually learn and get experience you’re still going to get beat all the time by people, even beginners, who did. But as long as you never test this, you get to live with the self-satisfaction of having “mastered” something yourself.

Of course, nothing wrong with watching and appreciating a master at work. It’s just when this is sold as the illusion of education passively absorbed through a screen that I think it can be harmful. Or at least a waste of time.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#157

Post by ab5tract »

fathermarz wrote: post #125

As someone who has been producing music for 20 years, this is absolutely incredible. I remember when I started building things from samples in FL4 and just how mind bending that was. I am so excited for this to actually get new ORIGINAL samples. What people miss is since the creation of Splice, basically all new music that isn’t from an already established artist is paint by numbers. You can get any sample in any key…

This is not true. I’m sorry but the Splice userbase is hardly the size of earth’s music producing population.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#158

Post by ab5tract »

empressplay wrote: post #95

> Commercial use rights for songs made while subscribed LOL oh hell no! Why would anyone use this if a perpetual subscription is required to maintain the rights? Absurd.

You would be truly surprised by how many people are doing exactly the same thing when it comes to releasing their music on streaming platforms.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#159

Post by handbanana_ »

songeater wrote: post #107

Tools like Suno are fundamentally enabling. I'm about 40 years old and never "had the music" - not for lack of trying (music lessons at a young age)... but could never carry a tune or keep rhythm. I suppose its what being dyslexic feels like. If I were educated in a culture where music was fundamentally as important as reading or math, I suppose would have spent enough hours on it to eventually be passable... but I g…

Personally for me I wouldn't be able to reconcile the fact that these generated stems are basically the same as generated AI images--built from the digital bits of existing tracks/music/recording that someone else spent the time and hard work making and then sharing only to have it unexpectedly hoovered up by these corporations as part of their giant data training set.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#160

Post by radley »

j4coh wrote: post #153
visarga wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My 8 year old nephew was cranking out "songs" in Suno within an hour of being introduced to it. Reminds me of when parents were super impressed that their 3-year old could use an iPad. You imply "it is Prompt -> Song" but in reality it is "Prompt -> Song -> Reflection -> New Prompt -> New Song.." It is a dialogue. And in a dialogue you can get some places where neither of you could go alone. As software developers…

It’s really not. It’s like having interdimensional Spotify where you can describe any song and they will pull it up from whatever dimension made it and play it for you. It may empower you as a consumer but it does not make you a creator.

I dunno, based on Spotify's recommendation engine, AI is absolutely sufficient to make anyone a creator ;P

Almost all naturally-generated music is derivative to one degree or another. And new tools like AI provide new ways to produce music, just like all new instruments have done in the past.

Take drum and bass. Omni Trio made a few tracks in the early 90s. It was interesting at the time, but it wasn't suddenly a genre. It only became so because other artists copied them, then copied other copies, and more and more kept doing it because they all enjoyed doing so.

Suno ain't gonna invent drum and bass, just like drum machines didn't invent house music. But drum machines did expand the kinds of music we could make, which lead to house music, drum and bass, and many other new genres. Clever artists will use AI to make something fun and new, which will eventually grow into popular genres of music, because that's how it's always been done.

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