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Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

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Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#41

Post by tummler »

raincole wrote: post #30
tummler wrote: post #19

Suno is moving toward becoming a browser-based DAW that happens to use AI. There are already more capable and established DAWs, and I see no reason they can't implement AI into their workflows-- in a more precise manner, where it's actually useful, instead of wholesale as a gimmick. Many are already doing this. So I don't understand where Suno is going with any of this. It either needs to be: 1. So easy anyone can pr…

All you said is very reasonable. But then you look at image gen. The established one, namely Adobe, are surprisingly not winning the AI race. Then you look at code gen. The established IDEs are doing even worse. I don't rule out the possibility of music being truly special, but the idea of "established tools can just easily integrate AI right" isn't universally true.

The innovator's dilemma is real. IMO none of the big DAWs are well-positioned to capitalize on AI, but that doesn't mean they couldn't.

I'd argue music generation is different from image or code generation. It's closer to being purely art. Take image generation for example. Most of the disruption is coming from competition with graphic design, marketing, creative/production processes, etc. The art world isn't up in arms about AI "art" competing with human art.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#42

Post by lomase »

meowface wrote: post #34
lomase wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

They probably won't. And if they do probably everyone will ridicule the songs. But maybe they will link the songs and maybe at least half the repliers will say the songs actually are good. I like rooting for the underdog.

Suno with its $125 million VC funding is everything but an underdog my friend.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#43

Post by jsheard »

cdrini wrote: post #39
sandoze wrote: post #12

Before AI there was a general consensus that creative areas (eg. Cities) were becoming a homogenized experience. A Starbuckization if you will. I can’t help but wonder what gets lost when using tools like this.

It's unclear to me whether it will result in more homogeneity, as a result of prompts being a coarse medium that results in the AI choosing what it's seen to fill in the rest, or less homogeneity, as a result of more people with non-mainstream tastes being able to create music aligned with their niche that otherwise wouldn't exist due time/money restrictions. I think the latter seems a bit more likely, but time will…

There's not really any need to speculate when this has already played out in other mediums - would you say that the proliferation of LLMs has led to an explosion of novel and interesting works of fiction, or just an explosion of cookie-cutter slop ebooks?

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#45

Post by chrisvenum »

jjangkke wrote: post #16
chrisvenum wrote: post #7

While I like using AI for assisting with repetitive programming, I can’t help but feel sorry for my producer and illustrator friends who are now having to compete with generated tools. Is it snobby of me to look down upon art that is created using these tools as lesser because the human did not make every tiny decision going into a peice? That a persons taste and talent is no longer fully used to produce something an…

Applying your logic, did you feel bad for seamstresses when industrial revolution took off? did you feel bad for hardware manufacturers in America when they were outsourced to China? Art is also a form of labor and whoever can produce quality at quantity wins. Idealizing art in some sort of religious idolation is just plain silly. We haven't had the Picassos or Mozarts or Oscar Peterson for quite some time now yet th…

I almost agree with you that this is about quality, but I still feel that the context in which art comes from influences how I perceive it.

Take, for example, a track by Fontaines D.C., a band from Ireland that writes extensively about the lived social and political experience. Knowing where they are from and the general themes of their work makes their tracks feel authentic, and you can appreciate the worldview they have and the time spent producing the art, even if it does not align with your own tastes.

Trying to create something of the same themes and quality from a prompt of “make me an Irish pop rock track about growing up in the country” suddenly misses any authenticity.

Maybe this is what I am trying to get at, but like I said, I feel some conflict about this, as I personally value these tools for productivity

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#46

Post by bogtap82 »

nadermx wrote: post #32
bogtap82 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the person you responded to, but these are some examples from someone I know that had accompanying music videos (actual video production) made for them: Sunscreen: https://youtu.be/VBaWtOHPTZw Purple Sunset Over Lake 2: https://youtu.be/lD7rSxPncs4

[flagged]

Thanks, I'll let them know.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#47

Post by danielvaughn »

raincole wrote: post #30
tummler wrote: post #19

Suno is moving toward becoming a browser-based DAW that happens to use AI. There are already more capable and established DAWs, and I see no reason they can't implement AI into their workflows-- in a more precise manner, where it's actually useful, instead of wholesale as a gimmick. Many are already doing this. So I don't understand where Suno is going with any of this. It either needs to be: 1. So easy anyone can pr…

All you said is very reasonable. But then you look at image gen. The established one, namely Adobe, are surprisingly not winning the AI race. Then you look at code gen. The established IDEs are doing even worse. I don't rule out the possibility of music being truly special, but the idea of "established tools can just easily integrate AI right" isn't universally true.

Agreed. The problem with being an incumbent in this era is that much of the existing UI/UX assumptions are based on the idea of manual manipulation. We're so early that foundational assumptions are still up for debate, and for large companies like Adobe, there's just no way they'd be able to move at the required pace to keep up. Heck I'm at a company that's less than 2 years old, with less than 20 people, solely devoted to AI, and it's still hard for us to keep up.

What Adobe and others ought to be doing is setting up internal labs that have free reign to explore whatever ideas they want, with no barriers or formality. I doubt any of them will do that.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#48

Post by chrisvenum »

chrisvenum wrote: post #45
jjangkke wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Applying your logic, did you feel bad for seamstresses when industrial revolution took off? did you feel bad for hardware manufacturers in America when they were outsourced to China? Art is also a form of labor and whoever can produce quality at quantity wins. Idealizing art in some sort of religious idolation is just plain silly. We haven't had the Picassos or Mozarts or Oscar Peterson for quite some time now yet th…

I almost agree with you that this is about quality, but I still feel that the context in which art comes from influences how I perceive it. Take, for example, a track by Fontaines D.C., a band from Ireland that writes extensively about the lived social and political experience. Knowing where they are from and the general themes of their work makes their tracks feel authentic, and you can appreciate the worldview they…

Saying that, maybe a DAW experience makes what can be created more personal

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#49

Post by input_sh »

meowface wrote: post #37
input_sh wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you exactly how any professional is gonna evaluate this DAW: press Ctrl+F, type "VST", see 0 results, close the page.

If they do add VST support I could see them becoming a legitimate player. Without it it's definitely just a toy.

They're never gonna let you upload and run your own executable files to their infrastructure.

That + latency with MIDI devices is why every DAW-in-a-browser is just a toy.

Re: Suno Studio, a Generative AI DAW

#50

Post by zubzubi »

tummler wrote: post #19

Suno is moving toward becoming a browser-based DAW that happens to use AI. There are already more capable and established DAWs, and I see no reason they can't implement AI into their workflows-- in a more precise manner, where it's actually useful, instead of wholesale as a gimmick. Many are already doing this. So I don't understand where Suno is going with any of this. It either needs to be: 1. So easy anyone can pr…

Yes I'm already doing this manually with Reason. I'll compose something that's quite bare bones, export the audio and run it through Suno, asking it to cover and improvise with a specific style, then when I have something I like, I split that into stems, import some or all of these to Reason and then reconstruct and enhance the sound using instruments in Reason, mostly by replaying the parts I like on keyboard and tweaking it in the piano roll. Often I get additional inspiration just by doing that. Eventually I delete all the tracks that came from Suno stems when I've finished this process.

That way I get new musical ideas from Suno but without any trace of Suno in the final output. Suno's output, even with the v5 model, is never quite what I want anyway so this way makes most sense to me. Also it means there's no Suno audio watermarking in the final product.

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