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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#151

Post by Grazester »

saratogacx wrote: post #141
terribleperson wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it just works on MacOS, but it's prone to all kinds of breakage on Windows.

That's because MSFT doesn't really do hibernate any more but does "modern sleep" where it functions like a phone with the screen off. It keeps active network connections, downloads patches and keeps checking for notifications and other such nonsense. BIOS support for proper hibernation has been getting worse too because with MSFT demanding it, there is little reason to continue support. I've had older laptops that do…

Interesting. I have yet to come across a computer that I couldn't hibernate in Window.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#152

Post by dheera »

hspak wrote: post #110
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #31

As suggested in the blog post, the battery life issue is complex. You do need a CPU/SoC that’s efficient, and while Intel and AMD can do this it’s traditionally been a struggle for them. Next, the OS needs to be capable of taking full advantage of the chip’s efficiency. Windows could be decent here in, but Microsoft doesn’t believe in an operating system that’s ever truly idle (and neither do the third parties living…

My Thinkpad X1 Carbon (gen 5) running linux can suspend for weeks without dying. There was definitely a window where battery life under suspending wasn't a huge problem in Linux, not sure what happened. I also have a Framework 13 (11th gen intel) which has terrible suspend battery life (also loses 2-3%/hour like the newer AMD version)– I was hoping that the AMD chips would fare better, but it seems not.

My Framework has the same battery issues as OP.

My previous two Xiaomi laptops also held charge for a long time on suspend, though not weeks.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#153

Post by SXX »

q3k wrote: post #147
stratosmacker wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey fyi and for posterity, on SteamDeck I have the same issue and the cause is the same as outlined above (modern standby). I would love to hear more from folks who don't have this out of the box. The fix is simple but I have to wonder why it's not set by default https://github.com/nazar256/publications/blob/main/guides/st... Ideally the Steamdeck would come with hibernation after timeout and FDE enabled by default,…

No sleep battery drain issues on my OLED model. Stock OS. Got it a few months ago.

Can't agree on it. For whatever reason my deck OLED do have this issue. Do you use SDcard btw? Since it's really the only difference from a stock device.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#154

Post by q3k »

SXX wrote: post #153
q3k wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No sleep battery drain issues on my OLED model. Stock OS. Got it a few months ago.

Can't agree on it. For whatever reason my deck OLED do have this issue. Do you use SDcard btw? Since it's really the only difference from a stock device.

I don't. I also have the highest end model FWIW.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#155

Post by worble »

maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

While I don't deny that suspend is an issue on Linux I've just never seen this as a major problem? I simply turn off my laptop and turn it on when I need it - boot times are less than a minute so it really isn't a issue for me, just flick the power switch, wait for a bit then I'm good to go.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#156

Post by WillAdams »

coldpie wrote: post #61
Aurornis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Mac Desktop is vastly inferior to the Linux world I have to use Mac, Linux, and Windows desktops in my work. They all have their pros and cons, but I can’t say I’d ever argue that the Mac desktop experience is vastly inferior to the Linux desktop experience. Edit: Getting a lot of downvotes but most of the comments are about someone’s highly customized Linux desktop compared to completely vanilla Mac desktop. I…

Man just give me a way to switch between only the two most recent windows using a keyboard shortcut (without requiring some janky 3rd party program). Windows-style alt-tab. It's not a big ask and would make the macOS experience go from "barely usable" to "perfectly fine."

Does Command tab not do this?

It brings up a list of applications in most recently to least recently used order, so two apps switched to/from will constantly switch places.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#157

Post by GZGavinZhao »

worble wrote: post #155
maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

While I don't deny that suspend is an issue on Linux I've just never seen this as a major problem? I simply turn off my laptop and turn it on when I need it - boot times are less than a minute so it really isn't a issue for me, just flick the power switch, wait for a bit then I'm good to go.

There are often browser tabs and other documents windows I would like to keep openers and I want to jump back to exactly where I left off as soon as possible.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#158

Post by anon7000 »

fpoling wrote: post #136
maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

I really do not understand why hibernate under secure boot is not implemented on Linux and this continues for years. It is as if the features are implemented by completely different people. But this is not obviously the case since systemd supports both and actively improving both. Note for me hibernation is a security measure and not about saving battery. I am traveling sometimes with the laptop and risk of theft is…

> It is as if the features are implemented by completely different people

This is almost definitely true considering it’s an massive open source project

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#159

Post by sonofhans »

trueismywork wrote: post #116
didacusc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that the macOS desktop is vastly inferior to Linux desktops is absolutely nuts. I've tried to get my relatives on Linux desktops so many times, just for it to go completely wrong a couple of weeks after and having to reinstall Windows. It's just not made for average (or below-average) users, so I don't see how it can be VASTLY inferior to something as easy and polished as macOS.

I just got a work Mac and I have spent around 20 years now on linux before it. I was making a list compared to KDE (not pros/cons just differences) It is still a work in progress since its only a couple of days since im using it. 1. No delete button. I know you can do Fn delete but It is more problematic. And I do use delete often. 2. System keeps important system stuff in Library directory in home. Do not do remove…

I feel your pain here; I remember my transition from Debian to MacOS. I’ve used DOS, Windows, Linux, and MacOS — each full-time for more than a decade. The switching pain is real, and some things still feel wrong to me after I got to love them on a prior OS.

E.g., in Windows apps, menu items are keyboard-addressable by default. This is brilliant for accessibility, and for accustomed power users. MacOS has no _by default_ equivalent.

E.g., managing virtual desktops in Linux are exactly as flexible and powerful as you want them to be. MacOS does it One Way (more or less), and you’d better like it.

I still love MacOS the most. Some of the things you list are real misses (#1). Some of them, I believe, are things you haven’t found yet (#11, #15, #16). Some are MacOS-specific metaphors which I’ve come to love compared with the alternatives (#4). Some I don’t understand but would be happy to discuss with you (#17).

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#160

Post by beeflet »

fpoling wrote: post #136
maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

I really do not understand why hibernate under secure boot is not implemented on Linux and this continues for years. It is as if the features are implemented by completely different people. But this is not obviously the case since systemd supports both and actively improving both. Note for me hibernation is a security measure and not about saving battery. I am traveling sometimes with the laptop and risk of theft is…

I have secure boot, hibernation, and full disk encryption working fine on linux, but I have never heard of kernel lockdown.

The solution I found involves making a custom initramfs to support hibernation and compiling the kernel into a signed EFI stub.

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