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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#141

Post by saratogacx »

terribleperson wrote: post #114
izacus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is - a lot if power saving is achieved by hybrid sleep (computer hibernating after a timeout). Setting that up is pure hell on Linux, with poor documentation and security people actively fighting against making this easy. On Windows/macOS it just works, on Linux you'll probably break secure boot with it.

Maybe it just works on MacOS, but it's prone to all kinds of breakage on Windows.

That's because MSFT doesn't really do hibernate any more but does "modern sleep" where it functions like a phone with the screen off. It keeps active network connections, downloads patches and keeps checking for notifications and other such nonsense.

BIOS support for proper hibernation has been getting worse too because with MSFT demanding it, there is little reason to continue support.

I've had older laptops that do the sleep->hibernate setup without too much issue but now it is a crap-shoot on if it is even supported in the hardware.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#142

Post by trueismywork »

Nevermark wrote: post #135
trueismywork wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just got a work Mac and I have spent around 20 years now on linux before it. I was making a list compared to KDE (not pros/cons just differences) It is still a work in progress since its only a couple of days since im using it. 1. No delete button. I know you can do Fn delete but It is more problematic. And I do use delete often. 2. System keeps important system stuff in Library directory in home. Do not do remove…

> The spaces dont wrap around. Indeed. I would love it if I could name spaces too. Amazing how little details improve productivity. > It seems that I cannot have windows of same app in multiple spaces. Right-click app icon in dock. For different app windows in the same app, appearing in different spaces: Options->Assign to Desktop->None. For app windows appearing across all spaces: Options->Assign to Desktop->All Des…

Thanks.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#144

Post by AgentElement »

hk1337 wrote: post #143

I love the Framework hardware but not all that impressed with the choice of operating systems that are available. That’s not really Framework’s problem though.

There is a choice of operating systems, which cannot be said about macs.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#145

Post by mort96 »

deepsun wrote: post #134
maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

No, Linux is not the issue -- my System76 Lemur holds 14+ hours. Haven't used X1 Carbon for a while, but it also held way longer than Framework.

How long does it keep its charge in sleep mode? Weeks or days?

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#146

Post by izacus »

saratogacx wrote: post #141
terribleperson wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it just works on MacOS, but it's prone to all kinds of breakage on Windows.

That's because MSFT doesn't really do hibernate any more but does "modern sleep" where it functions like a phone with the screen off. It keeps active network connections, downloads patches and keeps checking for notifications and other such nonsense. BIOS support for proper hibernation has been getting worse too because with MSFT demanding it, there is little reason to continue support. I've had older laptops that do…

No, Hybrid Sleep is when the Windows machine goes from Modern Standy to full shutdown and power off.

All laptops support that though it's not always enabled as a feature by default.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#147

Post by q3k »

stratosmacker wrote: post #123
joshstrange wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s possible for x86 machines to manage this state correctly, as proven by Valve’s Steam Deck which can be put to sleep and drain its battery slowly enough to stay alive for a week or more. I had the original Steam Deck and the OLED Steam Deck and neither of them would hold a charge past a day or so. It's a constant annoyance for me as I don't want to leave it plugged in 24/7 but if I don't, it won't be ready to g…

Hey fyi and for posterity, on SteamDeck I have the same issue and the cause is the same as outlined above (modern standby). I would love to hear more from folks who don't have this out of the box. The fix is simple but I have to wonder why it's not set by default https://github.com/nazar256/publications/blob/main/guides/st... Ideally the Steamdeck would come with hibernation after timeout and FDE enabled by default,…

No sleep battery drain issues on my OLED model. Stock OS. Got it a few months ago.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#148

Post by codr7 »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #23
deevus wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it's the repairable nature. Prior to the Framework 13 I had a bunch of Thinkpads until the enshittification by Lenovo in recent years.

How often have you needed to repair a MacBook? The enhanced repairability is basically insurance in case of a fault. Compared to a MacBook, or insurance for a MacBook, this insurance is overpriced. As for the environment, the power consumption + larger design with extra parts to make it repairable + how few people ever buy parts makes this a virtue signaling wash.

Depends, once you get a crumble or a speck of dust in the keyboard there aren't that many options.

The whole thing is fragile as hell; macbooks don't get dents, they turn into dust on impact, just like iphones.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#149

Post by billfor »

maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

I thought the issue with suspend on Linux was that swap had to be encrypted, but you could do it without kernel changes. There are some instructions here: https://techblog.dev/posts/2023/08/encrypted-swap-partition-...

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#150

Post by dheera »

Aurornis wrote: post #12
cardanome wrote: post #8

As a Linux user I feel you. The Mac Desktop is vastly inferior to the Linux world (for power users) but the hardware is so, so good. For me it is about having a completely silent setup. It is so, so hard to go back to noisy fans. I really hope Asahi Linux keep going so I can have the best of both worlds.

> The Mac Desktop is vastly inferior to the Linux world I have to use Mac, Linux, and Windows desktops in my work. They all have their pros and cons, but I can’t say I’d ever argue that the Mac desktop experience is vastly inferior to the Linux desktop experience. Edit: Getting a lot of downvotes but most of the comments are about someone’s highly customized Linux desktop compared to completely vanilla Mac desktop. I…

The point is that Linux allows you to customize it to your liking, almost infinitely. There is almost nothing you cannot do.

People are comparing them to vanilla Mac setups because Macs don't really let you have a non-vanilla experience.

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