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Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

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Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#151

Post by lxgr »

rty32 wrote: post #128
nightski wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this because I have used Firefox exclusively since it first came out and never run into broken sites. What exactly are these exotic sites you are visiting that break in Firefox? You mentioned an elusive government website but I have used many (IRS, SSA, Edu, etc...)

That's a very arrogant attitude. I'll give you one example: I sometimes can't open OpenAI API documentation due to some stupid Cloudflare captcha checks. No, on Firefox, however many times I click that checkbox, I can't go through the verification, just to read some static content. Not even if I disable adblock and tracking protection. I don't even see a checkbox at all on Chrome or Edge.

Cloudflare captchas are an excellent point.

Sure, technically nobody is excluded: Just solve the captcha! Fraud heuristics are only reasonable, right?

But it's all fun only as long as your situation occurs within the 90th or 95th percentile of all data labeled "good customer". Good luck if you're out side of that...

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#152

Post by int_19h »

saghm wrote: post #77
theshrike79 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know that Edge is Chromium repackaged, like all other browsers except Safari and Firefox?

So then why does Microsoft try to push it so hard on users who are trying to use Chrome? It's hard to believe they're just trying to save everyone the minimal time and effort that's being spent installing a different browser by randomly deciding to force a full-screen ad on an OS update. At absolute best, it's benign but worth not using simply to avoid rewarding whatever misguided incentives lead to them to "market"…

When you use Chrome and sign in, Google is tracking you.

When you use Edge and sign in, Microsoft gets to track you.

Both companies are selling ads.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#153

Post by [deleted] »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #96

No not even close by every single possible measure. I was there, I suffered through it, Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change. I have no interest in the arguments of a closed source subscription service that wants me to switch to the bundled browser of the wealthiest company on earth's most popular consumer OS, lecturing me about using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser th…

[deleted]

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#154

Post by jasode »

nightski wrote: post #127
lxgr wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser that I freely installed. 99% of the time I use Chrome it's because some site does not support Firefox (and that often includes Google sites/apps). (The 1% are for APIs that Firefox, consciously or out of resource constraints, does not support.) In what sense am I "freely installing" Chrome in this situation? Just today I had a family member reach out to me, unable…

I don't understand this because I have used Firefox exclusively since it first came out and never run into broken sites. What exactly are these exotic sites you are visiting that break in Firefox? You mentioned an elusive government website but I have used many (IRS, SSA, Edu, etc...)

>What exactly are these exotic sites you are visiting that break in Firefox?

In my case, an example of a non-exotic site is Youtube streaming 4k 60fps videos. I tried with latest Firefox a few months ago and it was still stuttering and glitchy. But Chrome plays smoothly with no issues. I previously mentioned that 4k playback has been a long-standing issue: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28783904

On one hand, my computer is fairly old ... but then again, Chrome works fine on that same old hardware.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#156

Post by onion2k »

pjmlp wrote: post #138
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #96

No not even close by every single possible measure. I was there, I suffered through it, Google would have to make TONS of hostile moves for that fact to change. I have no interest in the arguments of a closed source subscription service that wants me to switch to the bundled browser of the wealthiest company on earth's most popular consumer OS, lecturing me about using the 4th wealthiest company on earth's browser th…

It definitely is, I was also there, just like everyone was doing IE only sites, not only plenty of people do the same with ChromeOS vision of the Web, they ship Chrome alongside Electron crap. Safari is the last man standing before a ChromeOS world.

Safari is the last man standing before a ChromeOS world.

Except it isn't. Maybe I'm being slightly obtuse here, but the world is not "Chrome Vs Safari". It's "Chrome Vs Safari Vs native apps". If Safari dies we'll be in a world of "Chrome Vs native apps", and that is what Apple wants. Browsers represent a way to deliver software to users that's outside of Apple's revenue mechanisms.

Apple have every incentive to keep Safari being good-not-great at running web apps, so users prefer the native version (even though most of the time that'll be Electron.)

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#157

Post by notpushkin »

alganet wrote: post #90
m4rtink wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this a Firefox/Mozilla fault as well ? Afaik there is really no API or support for embedding Gecko & anyone who tries to do that, is on their own, having to periodically rebase large patch sets for embedding.

Possibly. I guess XUL was that API, but XUL is no more. It helps if your company uses the embedded stuff in other products. Like Microsoft used the Trident engine from IE6 all over Windows components. In that way, allocating resources for developing an embeddable engine is justifiable. Can Mozilla do that? I don'know. Google can (and does it! why wouldn't they?).

There is GeckoView on Android: https://mozilla.github.io/geckoview/

On desktop, it used to be available as an ActiveX component and a GTK widget, at least: https://www-archive.mozilla.org/projects/embedding/embedding...

Wine still uses WineGecko as a replacement for IE engine – might also be worth looking into.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#159

Post by ikiris »

MBCook wrote: post #11

Yes. If it works on Chrome, no one cares or even tests for other things. If there is a JS feature in Chrome they want to use, so it’s impossible to use other browsers (instead of looking wrong) people do it. Performs fine in Chrome? Ship it. Yes, Chrome is the new IE in that it’s the only browsers companies care about, just like IE was for a very long time. Everything has to be Chrome compatible to succeed. That’s th…

This isn't a chrome fault. It's lazy dev orgs. You aren't going to fix lazy dev orgs.

Re: Is Chrome the New IE? (2023)

#160

Post by jacobp100 »

lxgr wrote: post #106
intellix wrote: post #23

Safari, the browser that claims to support standards but always comes with caveats, like saying they support transform/transitions and then everything with box shadows flickering

It's also very slow to support new standards, in my experience. Web push notifications literally took years to make it from macOS to iOS, for example. (Yes, these are commonly abused for spam and other user-hostile things; no, I don't think that's a valid reason to withhold them from the only acceptable browser on their OS entirely.)

Depends what you’re looking at. They’re very fast at CSS and JS language features

They adopt new web APIs much more cautiously - or they drag their feet - depending on your perspective

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