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Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

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Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#151

Post by rightbyte »

Dalewyn wrote: post #139
rightbyte wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ye like looting. I mean, I have no clue who is at fault here. But cutting the boring fire chief trying to coordinate the mess some slack might be good. This smells of righteous social media outrage.

I'm not giving the bureaucrat slack because other government officials, law enforcement, and first responders were able to coordinate with the pilot just fine. As far as this story can tell us, things were going swell (as swell as a disaster area could be) until McBureaucrat came in and demanded he be worshipped. Ain't nobody got time for that nonsense.

I dunno where you get the 'bureaucrat' vibe from.

If anything, if we are going to guess personality, it is some sort of company level sergeant type that rather uphold disciplin, order and chain of command no matter what.

I really dislike military type of leadership and command. I am sick of it. But this is the time for it. Like, just do what the fire chief says and chill.

Just doing stuff is usually bad in situations like these.

Chill and wait for orders and don't undermine the authority of those in charge in a messed up situation.

And also don't instigate in social media about it...

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#152

Post by jquery »

probably_wrong wrote: post #84
lukan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is desperately unfair to them when somebody untrained, with a "cowboy" attitude, shows up and flips the script. " Those rescued by the cowboys did not expressed that. Sure, everyone prefers the professionals to show up, but if they don't, because they are overwhelmed by the situation, I surely would be glad, if an "cowboy" comes instead to pick me up. Troublemakers in search for attention are to be kept away for…

> Those rescued by the cowboys did not expressed that Probably, but that's literal survivorship bias: those who died due to a badly-performed search have nothing to say.

This. People ranting and raving don’t understand these rescue protocols are literally written in blood. Not saying the right call was made here, but going straight to the media and bellyaching that first responders didn’t lick your shoes and call you a hero is gross.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#153

Post by jquery »

_djo_ wrote: post #93
kortilla wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bunch of gatekeeping with “yeah, they save lives, but might cause harm”. Has anyone actually done analysis to determine if a bunch of amateurs is actually a net negative? Search and rescue people get upset by these people not following authority, but that’s a standard response anytime amateurs show up to something. It’s the same dilemma of allowing regular people to serve food to large groups. Sure, discour…

Do you not think that, if every disaster response and search & rescue organisation is saying the same thing about people just rocking up to get involved without the right coordination, that they might have a reason for it rather than just 'gatekeeping'?

Heavy downvotes on all the reasonable comments throughout this thread. Made me suspect there was more going on than just this incident and yep, Fox News and conservatives are trying to push an agenda filled with misinformation about how nobody is being allowed to help.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#154

Post by jquery »

fleabagmange wrote: post #98
voidUpdate wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the place of work of the disaster recovery people, who have established communication channels and procedures. If there is literally nobody coming to help you, then it may be reasonable to go ahead and do it yourself, but it feels incredibly unwise to do it if there are already people trying to do things

Yes and at the time there was no one coming to help. This incident didn’t occur yesterday, it occurred immediately after the storm in a town that is, to this day, unreachable. Respectfully, please get your facts straight here. The ignorance of HN is well on display in this thread.

The ignorance of HN is well on display, a quick perusal of the North Carolina subreddit shows a lot of partisans are trying to use this disaster for political gain. They would like all the “helpful” people spreading disinformation that “help isn’t allowed” to stop.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#155

Post by jachee »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #13
jachee wrote: post #8

[flagged]

> ACAB This is ambitiously wrong to the point of parody. One, fire chiefs are not cops. Two, the cops in the story were coördinating with the pilot. Three, the fucking pilot is a “a Class 1 certified law enforcement officer.”

a) The pilot was operating altruistically as an individual citizen with no express or implied authority. Thus, not a “cop”. Similarly, the people with whom he was coordinating weren’t acting in any law-enforcement capacity and were actually enabling and organizing actual humanitarian relief. Thus, not “cops”.

b) The fire chief apparently has the authority to have individual citizens arrested, and was abusing that power to stop those humanitarian efforts. Thus, functionally a “cop” and—doubly demonstrated—a bastard.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#156

Post by kortilla »

_djo_ wrote: post #86
kortilla wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People in authority get no slack when they start abusing power to flex without having a good reason. This dude just didn’t like being challenged.

When last did you run disaster response in any area for something of this scale? Emergency and disaster response organisations always ask people not to just rock up and do their own thing, but to go via the correct channels when volunteering for help. It's not an ego thing.

Arrests for not respecting authority is an ego thing. If it was purely about preventing him from flying he could have reported to the FAA

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#157

Post by tempodox »

oefrha wrote: post #19

While the brave men should be applauded, can I vent my frustration about these victims, who decided it was a good idea to stay alone in a mountain AirBnB in the possible path of an incoming hurricane (I won’t even say this if they actually lived there)? It’s not like the hurricane came out of nowhere, there was plenty of advance warning. Good people sometimes die trying to rescue these idiots. Oh and there’s also a 4…

How nice of you to share your priorities. But if you don't want to discuss how to save the greatest number of lives we possibly can, and instead rather argue about who deserves saving in the first place, maybe you should find a different forum for that.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#158

Post by philistine »

user_7832 wrote: post #147
philistine wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bureaucrat with a rule book, every time.

Well then you’ll then end up dead and your family will be told that politicians have sent thoughts and prayers their way. Hope that’s what you wanted?

Only American republicans send thoughts and prayers instead of acting after tragedies. Luckily for me, I’m not American and a sufficient percentage of our best and brightest work in government.

Re: Pilot flying Helene rescue missions in NC threatened with arrest

#160

Post by user_7832 »

philistine wrote: post #158
user_7832 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then you’ll then end up dead and your family will be told that politicians have sent thoughts and prayers their way. Hope that’s what you wanted?

Only American republicans send thoughts and prayers instead of acting after tragedies. Luckily for me, I’m not American and a sufficient percentage of our best and brightest work in government.

Do you live in Singapore, Switzerland, New Zealand or a Nordic country? I can't imagine any other place having bright folks working in the government (and being able to make a difference).
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