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Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

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Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#151

Post by __float »

jeltz wrote: post #51
rvense wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not like that. A pull request that replaced "he" in documentation with "they" was closed with the comment "This project is not the place to advocate your personal politics".

Yeah, that was a pointlessly rude way to close the PR since it assumed ill intent. But tiny pull requests like that are rarely helpful since the one reviewing it will need to check what pronouns are used in the rest of the documentation to make sure the style is consistent so they just create busywork for maintainers even though those PRs are almost always done in good faith. I definitely do not think he was leading…

> the one reviewing it will need to check what pronouns are used in the rest of the documentation to make sure the style is consistent

Huh? Nothing in a software project will ever be perfect – code or docs — so this doesn't seem like a reasonable expectation. It's always a process of gradual improvement, and that can be true for a change like this too.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#152

Post by JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #111
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then build your own browser in Rust, start contributing to Servo, and who cares when a volunteer writes a browser in any language? Write a browser in COBOL for all I care. If it’s open source, it’s still a gift.

Absolutely not. I don't know Rust and I think it is worse than C++ in many ways. This is a false dichotomy, they don't have to switch language mid-course.

I am very confused by your message. I know both Rust and C++ and think it’s an improvement in many ways. Why do you you think it’s worse without using the language?

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#154

Post by losvedir »

Wow! This is awesome news. Swift is like the perfect language to me - kind of a Rust (whose type system I adore) but with garbage collection. I'd always thought it was a little too tied to the Apple ecosystem, and specifically iOS, but if they can make this work for a cross-platform browser, then I'll have to give it another look. Maybe things have changed recently.

Oooh, or maybe I can even contribute now! I've supported Kling via GitHub for a while now and have been stoked about his pivot to building a browser. I never really dreamed of contributing, given C++, but now it feels more achievable.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#155

Post by stephc_int13 »

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote: post #152
stephc_int13 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. I don't know Rust and I think it is worse than C++ in many ways. This is a false dichotomy, they don't have to switch language mid-course.

I am very confused by your message. I know both Rust and C++ and think it’s an improvement in many ways. Why do you you think it’s worse without using the language?

I don't use it, it does not mean that I know nothing about it.

I know enough.

Rust is extremely anti-ergonomic for me, and too complex, just as bad or worse than C++ in that regard.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#156

Post by zozbot234 »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #155
JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am very confused by your message. I know both Rust and C++ and think it’s an improvement in many ways. Why do you you think it’s worse without using the language?

I don't use it, it does not mean that I know nothing about it. I know enough. Rust is extremely anti-ergonomic for me, and too complex, just as bad or worse than C++ in that regard.

The original tweet was essentially complaining about boilerplate, which is all that's involved in managing most "complex object graphs" in Rust. If you think some minor boilerplate makes languages "extremely anti-ergonomic" I sure hope you're not writing Java.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#157

Post by ksec »

I am just worried.

I just wish they could at least delay it until Swift 6.1, giving time for it to mature. And let the idea to jump right into Swift after 6.0 to age a little more.

Developers have a tendency to jump to new language, new tools, new problems because it is exciting and fun.

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#158

Post by open592 »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #97
christophilus wrote: post #88

For those who are worried, Andreas is a thoughtful dude. This decision was not made on a whim. Also, they’re not doing a massive rewrite: > The Swift team is also investing heavily in C++ interop, which means there's a real path to incremental adoption, not just gigantic rewrites. To me, the Tweet does a good job justifying the decision. I’m rooting for Ladybird, and I hope this decision pays off. A modern browser in…

I strongly disagree. This is not a justified decision, they just feel like it based either on vague and speculative reasons, or because they are funded to do so, I would not be surprised if they had discussions with the Swift marketing team.

Andreas has been talking about liking and exploring Swift since before he started working on Jakt [0] and if you look at Jakt you will clearly see it is heavily influenced by Swift.

[0] https://github.com/SerenityOS/jakt

Re: Ladybird browser to start using Swift language this fall

#159

Post by irusensei »

commodoreboxer wrote: post #72
ayhanfuat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a big fight on Twitter last month because of a comment he made 3 years ago ( https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/pull/6814 ). I think that's closely related.

How is that related? What does it have to do with Rust? If anything, I'd say it shows that social media (and microblogging platforms like Twitter and Mastodon in particular) tend to be politically charged, toxic, and dogmatic.

I can totally imagine someone from the Ladybird project reaching out for the Rust community channels and being harassed because of that silly PR.
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