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Is the Job Market Dying?

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Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#151

Post by chiefalchemist »

cyberlurker wrote: post #44
chiefalchemist wrote: post #4

My sense is, there is less movement. It's like musical chairs. When more people are changing more often those that have been waiting on the side lines have a greater chance of jumping in and getting a seat. Now that the tempo has slowed down, more people are left standing longer. Some big name layoffs aside, the market feels to be roughly the same size. What's missing is the churn.

To add to this, the churn creates inefficiencies within companies since new employees need to onboard and can take as long as two years to truly understand what the heck is going on within the org. If you have less churn, you have better efficiency and perhaps can get more done with fewer engineers. Also interviewing and onboarding people takes a lot of time and effort from other employees, if it is being done right.…

> If you have less churn, you have better efficiency and perhaps can get more done with fewer engineers.

True. But the downside is groupthink. New hires bring new ideas, new perspectives, etc. Heck, even something as simple explaining X or Y during onboarding forces the "teacher" to rethinking and reinterpret.

No chun? No new blood. No new ideas.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#152

Post by M95D »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #33
zer00eyz wrote: post #8

No, it is not. For those of you who are new here (aka didn't live through the 2000 bubble) welcome to a shitty job market. 1. Your best bet to get a job is your network. If you were a clock puncher, if you didn't go above and beyond, if you aren't the person who is gonna make the co-worker who vouches for you look good... you are not gonna get much help in your network. 2. The next best bet is to either a) start your…

I was box number three - tried to be box number two and went bankrupt, and took a job at PCWorld (UK version of BestBuy?) doing repairs. Couple of months in I had coded up a sort of automated PC fix program - turned 2 hours into 5 minutes. There is always a way to find an entrepreneurial gap - even if I never quite exploit it to my own financial benefit Worst day in that job when I was trying to crawl out of bankrupt…

Any advice for those who absolutely hate networking?

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#153

Post by ghaff »

M95D wrote: post #152
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was box number three - tried to be box number two and went bankrupt, and took a job at PCWorld (UK version of BestBuy?) doing repairs. Couple of months in I had coded up a sort of automated PC fix program - turned 2 hours into 5 minutes. There is always a way to find an entrepreneurial gap - even if I never quite exploit it to my own financial benefit Worst day in that job when I was trying to crawl out of bankrupt…

Any advice for those who absolutely hate networking?

I think they're giving the answer. You might need to do something else at least for a time--including mostly crappy service sector jobs. But, honestly, even during better times I've relied on my network and you may end up severely disadvantaged if you don't. (Note. Networking doesn't mean going to networking events. It just means keeping in touch with and reaching out to people you've worked with.)

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#154

Post by richrichie »

bzhang255 wrote: post #144
richrichie wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been the case since professional HR came into being in tech, and people (mainly women) with no domain background were given a major role to play in shortlisting candidates.

The gender comment feels unnecessary.

An empirical fact though.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#155

Post by ghaff »

axpy wrote: post #145
antisthenes wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But remember 1000hours a year is a lot to bet on your company or colleagues vouching for you and being in a position where that matters. Yeah, at 50/hr that's $50,000 for a chance of someone vouching for you in the future that may never come to pass. There's also the chance that maybe they were the manager that made you work 60hrs in the first place, so they don't see you as going above and beyond. Whoopsie, you ju…

You do you but don't complain if you end up having a harder time during economic downturn. Everything in life is about risk-reward and going the extra mile is about tipping the scale in your favor. To be fair, don't think op advocate for putting 60h every week. It's about being passionate about what you are doing and sometime just being available for your coworker outside of working hours can be enough. In my profess…

It's really not about the hours. It's getting the job done and helping out etc. I've gotten every job in a long career post-school through my network and I've never worked more than ~40 hours except in specific situations. I agree with the other comments. I am flexible and generally available but that doesn't mean I'm working ridiculous hours. I guess that means a certain discipline in that regard.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#156

Post by ghaff »

ianbicking wrote: post #94
eru wrote: post #5

> In fact, a recent survey of 1,500 job candidates by the staffing firm Aerotek found 70% of people find their current job search more difficult than the last, even though people are more qualified than before. I wonder how much survivorship bias is in there? If the job market is strong, then people who are candidates now are only those left who have a harder time finding a job? Or simpler: you'd expect the reported…

That does seem like it would be a problem! Like if you imagine 50% of people have an easy time (1 month search) and 50% have a hard time (2 months) and each person had two searches with no correlation: The groups will be 25% each, ie .25 EH, .25 EE, etc., if you track only people who start looking for a job during the first month of their search. In the second month it will be 50% EH and 50% HH. So a total of 3/8 EH,…

Hard time = looking for the better part of a year or more. Not 2 months which is pretty common outside of the tech boom.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#157

Post by shrimp_emoji »

drewcoo wrote: post #149
PheonixPharts wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The rest left tech for good. This is an important reality check for many people. I entered tech in 2004, during the immediate aftermath of the dotcom crash. At that time software engineers got paid well, but not insane. Additionally, every software engineer I met was passionate about writing code. Honestly, around 2019 I was really missing those days. The field has become flooded with people looking for a high payi…

> I entered tech in 2004, during the immediate aftermath of the dotcom crash. I entered in 1999, when there were plenty of jobs mostly filled with people who liked paychecks a lot more than coding. It was hard to find jobs doing anything hard or nerdy in the sea of webmasters. I remember working at startups in the mid-late oughts after the bubble burst and the industry was awash in get-rich-quick, gimmicky companies.…

Even if it never existed, it should exist. The false description is prescription. M"${foo}"GA!

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#158

Post by jacknews »

paulcole wrote: post #117

Where I work we stopped posting jobs publicly and stopped promoting them on job sites. We now get candidates in 4 ways: • Internal referral – Sometimes a complete miss, sometimes a quick hire. • External recruiter (rarely) – For some roles their network has been beneficial and we’ve negotiated down to as little as 8% of yearly salary in exchange for a case study or something. • Direct Targeted LinkedIn Outreach – So…

"Part of the trick is realizing you don’t really need The Best People. Find somebody who you’ve got reasonable confidence can do the job well and make them an offer."

Right, the whole industry seems to focus on Hunger Games winners, when most of the jobs can be done by normal people, the the superstars are likely to leave at the drop of a hat anyway.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#159

Post by AnimalMuppet »

M95D wrote: post #152
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was box number three - tried to be box number two and went bankrupt, and took a job at PCWorld (UK version of BestBuy?) doing repairs. Couple of months in I had coded up a sort of automated PC fix program - turned 2 hours into 5 minutes. There is always a way to find an entrepreneurial gap - even if I never quite exploit it to my own financial benefit Worst day in that job when I was trying to crawl out of bankrupt…

Any advice for those who absolutely hate networking?

Be nice to the people you work with. If you can't do that, at least don't be a jerk.

Do your job. Do it well. Your coworkers will know whose code works.

When someone leaves for a new job, get a personal email. Put it in a file somewhere (not in a work computer).

That's networking. It doesn't have to be going to the bar every night with your bros from work. It can just be that people know you, know your work, and have moved on to other places.

Re: Is the Job Market Dying?

#160

Post by AnimalMuppet »

fileeditview wrote: post #147
zer00eyz wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a job and they are hiring. Two former colleagues come in. Bob: he comes in, he does his work, he goes home. He's a good productive developer. Jane: She comes in, does her work, it's always documented and well tested. She is happy to roll up her sleeves and help the people around her out. She will pause to help you even if it means she gonna finish up at home. Your boss asks you: Your call who do we hire.…

And then the company just lays off Bob and Jane and thousands of others. Now Jane is angry because she committed a lot of her personal time for the company but was laid off anyways.. Don't be Jane.

Yeah, that happens. Jane gets a new job before Bob, though.
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