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Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

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Re: Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

#151

Hmm so 300 million cars with 50 kg lithium in each. That's about four years worth of global car production. Would make a dent in oil usage certainly!

And long term the supply a new lithium needed per year will be less than that needed to meet that year's global car production. Most of the metals used in EV batteries are recyclable, they aren't consumed permanently by putting them in a battery.

Re: Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Think people have impression we are energy independent and Scot-free because of fracking. Really, fracking was a second chance. A reprieve. We'll just be behind 8-ball again if we don't take this reprieve and grow some other energy source.

I do not really understand why we are obsessed with energy independence. It only matters if we were to ban exports which is an absurd thing to do.

This is because you’ve been living a very comfortable life with no real foreign threats thanks to US hegemony and the globalization it allowed. Due to other countries growing and wanting to have a say, this can’t be expected to continue going forward and so we have to think about things from a strategic perspective and not from a purely economic one.

Re: Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t energy independence more about other countries exports? From the perspective of Germany, their reliance on Russian oil caused a high spike in cost of energy during the current Ukraine invasion. For the US, we don’t really want to be at the whim of OPEC. The 1973 Oil Crisis is a historical example of OPEC taking a religious and political stance and using their oil exports to coerce the US against Israel. Another…

Germany's plight is entirely owed to their own political malfeasance in shutting down their nuclear power plants. With them, they would have managed just fine without Russian oil and natural gas.

There is still a bulk of our modern economy which relies on combustion engines and oil. You are out of touch with this reality if you think Nuclear is a quick replacement for anything but basic power generation. We are generations away from electrifying everything.

Re: Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

#155

I'm assuming it's not a giant 15M ton chunk of (highly reactive) metal in the ground, but rather they took a bucket of dirt, analyzed it, and extrapolated how much lithium is available in the ground. My question is, how much "earth" do they need to dig up and refine to extract this amount of lithium?

this site says 0.4% so they would need to extract 3.5B tons of rock

https://thethaiger.com/news/national/thai-lithium-deposits-o...

Re: Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deposits appear sufficiently distributed to not cause geopolitical conflicts [1]. This is not oil. Lithium is relatively abundant, and a mineral to be reused, not energy to be consumed once through. To keep it conflict free, we must continue to discover reserves and drive down the value of the commodity. No one goes to war over say, salt, in the 21st century (at least not yet!). [1] https://lithiumfuture.org/map.html

The 2019 Bolivian political crisis [1] came right off the heels of Evo Morales negotiating lithium trade with Russia and China. Bolivia happens to have the largest lithium reserves of any nation. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Bolivian_political_cris...

This was because Evo was running again even when their constitution forbid it, basically every latin american president dream of eternal reelection.

Re: Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

#157

One thing I didn't see mentioned here, lithium brine extraction has some pretty serious environmental downsides. Finding all that lithium will be a win if/when its extracted and usable, actually extracting it is a different story.

I hear people complain about this, but they never place it in context with the damage from, say, iron or copper mining.

I've done lots of web searches, read lots of articles, and there's never definitive measures of harm or comparisons to what current mining does.

In a standard f150, how much damage is done from mining? How much damage comes from oil extraction compared to the one-time cost to extract lithium?

Re: Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not taking the extreme and unprecedented rate of temperature change into account is either ignorance or disingenuity. https://xkcd.com/1732/ It's probable that very few species will be able to adapt to such an abrupt change.

Adaptation happens when it's forced to happen.

Yes, but there is always the second half of “adapt or die” to consider

Re: Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

#159
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the new oil, so I would be careful. Democracy and camaraderie and all those greater good things tend to come where the cheap resources are.

Deposits appear sufficiently distributed to not cause geopolitical conflicts [1]. This is not oil. Lithium is relatively abundant, and a mineral to be reused, not energy to be consumed once through. To keep it conflict free, we must continue to discover reserves and drive down the value of the commodity. No one goes to war over say, salt, in the 21st century (at least not yet!). [1] https://lithiumfuture.org/map.html

But processing the lithium and making productive tools or products out if it isn't really distributed.

Re: Thailand discovers nearly 15M tonnes of lithium

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not really understand why we are obsessed with energy independence. It only matters if we were to ban exports which is an absurd thing to do.

Isn’t energy independence more about other countries exports? From the perspective of Germany, their reliance on Russian oil caused a high spike in cost of energy during the current Ukraine invasion. For the US, we don’t really want to be at the whim of OPEC. The 1973 Oil Crisis is a historical example of OPEC taking a religious and political stance and using their oil exports to coerce the US against Israel. Another…

No, it's about what the US exports - because the US produces more oil than it needs domestically. We will always be at the 'whim of OPEC' as long as we are in a market-based system because OPECs actions impact global oil supplies.
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