Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

Post by b112 » Fri, Dec 29, 2023, 11:39 PM UTC

hotpotamus wrote: post #150

b112 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing is more primal than procreation. Nothing. It predates religion, cities, agriculture, and humanity itself. You cite a cultural thing, religion, but birthrates are down exclusive of culture, it is why I mentioned cultures quite foreign to the West. You mention costs, which is why I mentioned historical birth control, for example, plenty of children were born during the great depression! Let me put this another…

Oh, I'm not all that dogmatic or sure of anything in life, so I don't think it's crazy to suspect some sort of environmental/biological factor. But I think the "Death of God" is reality; it's true across all cultures and people eventually realize it. My understanding is that religiosity is the biggest predictor of fertility. What environmental factor would correlate with fertility? My understanding is that Africa and…

I don't know, but with birth rates declining as they are, I think it warrants significant research.

Post by shiroiuma » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:19 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #146

hotpotamus wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech jobs have had massive layoffs in the last few years. I've literally seen couples at the same employer laid off together. Certainly I've seen many colleagues with young children laid off and scrambling. My coworker literally told me a few weeks ago that her husband was laid off and as a result they had had to switch to our company insurance which was less generous. Tying your family's healthcare to the whims of y…

It's merely one factor among many, I'm sure, but don't the results, ever decreasing fertility, speak for themselves? Why would you attribute decreasing fertility, something that affects every western nation on the planet, as something to do with US health care? It even affects Russia, China, Japan, literally every "modernized" nation. People have had condoms and other methods to prevent pregnancy, but no one ever car…

What makes you think China and Japan have cultures "most divergent" from western cultures? Have you ever even been to these countries? I live in Japan and it's very much like a western country, though a couple decades behind in some ways (like smoking rates), and a lot safer (compared to the US where half the population is armed); the main difference is language, and that it isn't so individualistic. Birthrates are down just like other western nations, because of many of the same factors: contraception is readily available, women are educated and have careers which are incompatible with being full-time mothers (what I mean here is that a woman, anywhere, having a career is generally incompatible with parenthood).

If you want to see a highly-divergent culture, go to Afghanistan or parts of Africa.

The fundamental "problem" I see is that, in developed nations, women have rights and agency and are able to make decisions about their lives and bodies. This is fundamentally incompatible with a high birth rate. In traditional and religious cultures, it isn't this way. So I think we have 3 choices:

1) Continue on our current path, where women are allowed to be full and equal citizens, and see continued drops in birthrates, though some policy changes (financial assistance for parents etc.) might help a little bit.

2) Revoke women's rights and make them second-class citizens. Ban contraception and abortion. Don't allow them to go to college or have real jobs. Adopt a state religion that promotes having lots of children, and force everyone to follow it, or else. Basically, emulate the Taliban.

3) Adopt some rather radical change to society (and maybe human biology) that avoids #2 and allows for equality and freedom while still having the effect of birthrates over 2.1. I'm not too sure about what this might be, though I have some ideas that have variously appeared in sci-fi.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents