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Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

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Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#141

Post by itake »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #109
itake wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Florida CoL is driven by out-of-staters (specifically New England snow birds and retirees). earned money out of state and then buy vacation properties or primary residences. No-income tax attracts people living on a fixed income (gained by being employed out of state via Social Security, Pensions, and traditional retirement accounts). Florida income cannot compete with NYC income, even if there is no income tax.

In short we're saying: Market forces responded to lower taxes by sharply increasing the cost of living.

Clearly that doesn’t work, bc high cost of living states, like ny or ca. would have lower col

Instead we see the opposite.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#142

Post by dharmab »

downrightmike wrote: post #140
dharmab wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Social Security surplus will be depleted in 2033 ( https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html ), after which point Social Security will be paying back the same amount that people paid into it. People of my generation who are becoming parents now will receive few social security benefits over their lifetime. As the program currently exists, my generation is being robbed of money that we could invest ourselves.

We could just fix that

Who is "we"? Congress would need to fix it and the current dysfunction is politically useful to certain key members.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#143

Post by pc86 »

dharmab wrote: post #142
downrightmike wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could just fix that

Who is "we"? Congress would need to fix it and the current dysfunction is politically useful to certain key members.

It's useful to everyone because as soon as more than 2 people sit down to discuss fixing it everyone has their pet thing that absolutely cannot change under any circumstances. So you end up with half the room saying "you can't cut benefits 1 penny" and the other half saying "you can't raise taxes 1 penny" with 80% of people saying you can't raise the retirement age 1 day. It's a classic stalemate where whoever gives first ends up giving up most of their side.

The reality is that if we're going to keep this type of ponzi scheme around through the death of all the boomers we need to raise the retirement age 5 or 10 years, cut benefits by 20-30% and raise the SS taxes by 20-30% in addition to eliminating the income cap on those taxes. But imagine trying to get something that comprehensive passed that pisses off both sides that much.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#144

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

itake wrote: post #141
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short we're saying: Market forces responded to lower taxes by sharply increasing the cost of living.

Clearly that doesn’t work, bc high cost of living states, like ny or ca. would have lower col Instead we see the opposite.

And yet, that is the thing that happened here.

Maybe those other places were affected by factors that exist there.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#145

Post by intrasight »

ejb999 wrote: post #113
intrasight wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renting makes sense for many reasons. Sounds like it makes sense in your situation. Some people are too quick to buy a house for the wrong reasons. Also. remember that you can refinance if the rates drop.

you might be able to refinance if rates drop - it is not a guarantee. If you overpay for a house, and then you owe more than it appraises for around the time you want to refinance, you are going to have a very hard time taking advantage of lower interest rates, unless you are also in a position to also pay down the mortgage as part of the re-fi.

Of course don't overpay. The goal is to underpay.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#146

Post by b112 »

hotpotamus wrote: post #111
ejb999 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

couples with two generous 6 figures salaries are not generally the people worried about unexpected huge medical expenses - they have good jobs, and good insurance.

Tech jobs have had massive layoffs in the last few years. I've literally seen couples at the same employer laid off together. Certainly I've seen many colleagues with young children laid off and scrambling. My coworker literally told me a few weeks ago that her husband was laid off and as a result they had had to switch to our company insurance which was less generous. Tying your family's healthcare to the whims of y…

It's merely one factor among many, I'm sure, but don't the results, ever decreasing fertility, speak for themselves?

Why would you attribute decreasing fertility, something that affects every western nation on the planet, as something to do with US health care? It even affects Russia, China, Japan, literally every "modernized" nation.

People have had condoms and other methods to prevent pregnancy, but no one ever cared about the cost of kids before the last few decades. This is merely an excuse, for what is really happening...

Lack of fertility due to some environmental factor.

If it was cultural, Japan and China ... nations most divergent from US and Western cultures, would not be affected the same way. It doesn't matter about access to the pill, or other measures, nations with or without the pill in wide use have low birth rates. Nations strong on women's rights, and more "traditional" views on women, also have reduced fertility and births.

It's not cultural. It's not choice. It's not cost. It's not conscious.

There is, quite literally, something affecting a drive to procreate, which is entirely different from the drive to have sex.

Given that it's not cultural, and that it's not access to contraceptives, one has to wonder what it could be. Microplastics? Electricity? The types of food consumed, eg preservatives in modern foods seen in all the above countries?

There can be guesses, but no one is even doing any substantial research into this. Meanwhile, the planet's population is set to halve within 30 years. And if this trend continues, if fertility / birth rates continue to decline as they have been, we will likely be down to 500M people worldwide before the 2100s.

That is an immensely alarming trend, which leads to human extinction by the 2200s, due to "whatever it is" completely blocking all attempts to have offspring.

This trend also doesn't take into account a global plague, or re-emergence of world war, or devastating health issues due to global warming. Should that happen, with "loads of our current, younger offspring" killed in war, or by plague, the trend is astonishingly scary and disturbing.

Sorry to be a bit excessive in my reply, but the whole fertility thing is greatly disturbing to me.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#147

Post by hotpotamus »

b112 wrote: post #146
hotpotamus wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tech jobs have had massive layoffs in the last few years. I've literally seen couples at the same employer laid off together. Certainly I've seen many colleagues with young children laid off and scrambling. My coworker literally told me a few weeks ago that her husband was laid off and as a result they had had to switch to our company insurance which was less generous. Tying your family's healthcare to the whims of y…

It's merely one factor among many, I'm sure, but don't the results, ever decreasing fertility, speak for themselves? Why would you attribute decreasing fertility, something that affects every western nation on the planet, as something to do with US health care? It even affects Russia, China, Japan, literally every "modernized" nation. People have had condoms and other methods to prevent pregnancy, but no one ever car…

Oh I think it's ultimately modernity that's the cause; the "Death of God" as Nietzsche put it. As religion recedes around the world, humans have found no real replacement for the meaning it provided and perhaps no reason to continue things. I think that's ultimately why I never had any desire to have children myself; I see no reason to put them through the same suffering I went through to no real purpose and then presumably go on to face their own philosophical (and other) struggles.

That's me; I don't really know what reason everyone else has (though increasingly I find I'm not really such an outlier), but the more practical stuff like health insurance, cost of education, housing, childcare, etc... sure looks like death by a thousand cuts. Perhaps as you say they are excuses. I've been told that I must be bitter when I point out all the money I saved since I never wanted children, but really the main thing I've felt is relief - I have plenty of anxiety over the state of things, and knowing that I don't have to try and provide for dependents for a few decades is one of the things that keeps me from over-worrying. I've literally known people to kill themselves over such pressures, and I don't think I'd handle them that well either.

I don't want to tell you not to worry (when has that ever helped anyone?); you have the right to your feelings, but I think your timeline is quite a bit more aggressive than most current population projections.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#148

Post by watwut »

hotpotamus wrote: post #147
b112 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's merely one factor among many, I'm sure, but don't the results, ever decreasing fertility, speak for themselves? Why would you attribute decreasing fertility, something that affects every western nation on the planet, as something to do with US health care? It even affects Russia, China, Japan, literally every "modernized" nation. People have had condoms and other methods to prevent pregnancy, but no one ever car…

Oh I think it's ultimately modernity that's the cause; the "Death of God" as Nietzsche put it. As religion recedes around the world, humans have found no real replacement for the meaning it provided and perhaps no reason to continue things. I think that's ultimately why I never had any desire to have children myself; I see no reason to put them through the same suffering I went through to no real purpose and then pre…

Back then in those times, children were also your social security. Expectation and very strong one was that they will help you in the old age. Including when parent was abysive or conteolling. Expectation now is that you care yourself and kids have zero responsibility. Living with parents shameful, giving money to parent signifies lack of boundaries.

Plus back then, anticonception available to everyone was simply not a thing. Sex meant kids.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#149

Post by b112 »

hotpotamus wrote: post #147
b112 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's merely one factor among many, I'm sure, but don't the results, ever decreasing fertility, speak for themselves? Why would you attribute decreasing fertility, something that affects every western nation on the planet, as something to do with US health care? It even affects Russia, China, Japan, literally every "modernized" nation. People have had condoms and other methods to prevent pregnancy, but no one ever car…

Oh I think it's ultimately modernity that's the cause; the "Death of God" as Nietzsche put it. As religion recedes around the world, humans have found no real replacement for the meaning it provided and perhaps no reason to continue things. I think that's ultimately why I never had any desire to have children myself; I see no reason to put them through the same suffering I went through to no real purpose and then pre…

Nothing is more primal than procreation. Nothing. It predates religion, cities, agriculture, and humanity itself.

You cite a cultural thing, religion, but birthrates are down exclusive of culture, it is why I mentioned cultures quite foreign to the West.

You mention costs, which is why I mentioned historical birth control, for example, plenty of children were born during the great depression!

Let me put this another way. We know that tiny changes in the chemical balance of the brain, can turn a calm, cultured person into a raving lunatic. Just see what happens with an excess of calcium in the blood, for example!

We have a myriad of treatments for depression, for psychosis, for other issues often derived from more than pure genetics.

We know that levels of testosterone in males have declined.

Yet when I mention that the problem could be biological, most scoff. I find this, in my opinion, delusional stance to be quite concerning.

People love to believe that their actions, in their entirety, are the outcome of their rational thought.

But this is procreation, the most powerful, primal drive a species has.

Re: Nearly half of Americans age 18 to 29 are living with their parents

#150

Post by hotpotamus »

b112 wrote: post #149
hotpotamus wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I think it's ultimately modernity that's the cause; the "Death of God" as Nietzsche put it. As religion recedes around the world, humans have found no real replacement for the meaning it provided and perhaps no reason to continue things. I think that's ultimately why I never had any desire to have children myself; I see no reason to put them through the same suffering I went through to no real purpose and then pre…

Nothing is more primal than procreation. Nothing. It predates religion, cities, agriculture, and humanity itself. You cite a cultural thing, religion, but birthrates are down exclusive of culture, it is why I mentioned cultures quite foreign to the West. You mention costs, which is why I mentioned historical birth control, for example, plenty of children were born during the great depression! Let me put this another…

Oh, I'm not all that dogmatic or sure of anything in life, so I don't think it's crazy to suspect some sort of environmental/biological factor. But I think the "Death of God" is reality; it's true across all cultures and people eventually realize it. My understanding is that religiosity is the biggest predictor of fertility.

What environmental factor would correlate with fertility? My understanding is that Africa and Israel as examples still have high fertility rates - what environmental factor are they missing that affects most of the rest of the world?

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