An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation • Hacker News Board

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#151

Post by lozenge » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

_cenw wrote: post #146

lozenge wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is there is no standard that is applied evenly. If there was then the funding would have been quickly denied with a documented reason attached. Stalling something which is going to get approved is just vindictiveness and collective punishment. Have you not heard what it's like for an Arab or Muslim going through Israeli airports? Sure, they'll be detained and deported at most, but that's enough to exclude t…

They're still not the same thing. TSA and Israeli customs might suck, but at worst you get turned around. You manage to get past, let's say, Saudi customs as a trans person, get ready for jail time for the crime of existing. Not comparable.

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#152

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:11 PM UTC

kabanda1 wrote: post #96

My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences. About LBGTQ This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here…

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Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#153

Post by throwaway290 » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:11 PM UTC

zartusht wrote: post #124

kabanda1 wrote: post #96

My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences. About LBGTQ This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here…

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> No one is sanctioning Israel for ethnic cleansing, textbook settler colonialism and apartheid going on since 1948.

Bad example since Jews are generally the ones who were getting cleansed. They were evicted by extreme Christians, then murdered by Nazi Germans (remember when US and Canada did not accept a shipful of Jews fleeing gas chambers so they had to go back and die?) and 1948 is when Arab League attacked the new country the next day after it was created.

Meanwhile Muslim people in Israel lead far better lives than in many surrounding countries with access to good healthcare, education etc. There is certainly no cleansing and people choose different schools because they speak different languages. There were certain moves like demoting Arabic from its previous role as official language 5 years ago but then how many countries in Middle East even recognize Hebrew? I've visited it once, you should perhaps visit the country yourself some time and see if you find all that terrible cleansing and apartheid. Maybe compare to all the Muslim countries around while you're at it, too.

A better example would be Qatar with its exit visas, not only not sanctioned but football world cup was held there

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#154

Post by isodev » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:12 PM UTC

Longhanks wrote: post #134

isodev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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You for real? I invite you to try (for one day) to not let anyone discover your gender assigned at birth or your skin colour or let’s make it really easy - hide that you’re left handed or right handed. It’s a life or death situation - game over if anyone finds out.

And of course, while suppressing all that, don’t forget to enjoy local “hospitality”, the Python event - networking, creativity, conversing with your peers, learning and exchanging ideas.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#155

Post by arcza » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:13 PM UTC

logicchains wrote: post #88

Say what you want about the language's complexity but this wouldn't have happened if it was a C++ conference.

What point are you trying to make?

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#156

Post by Narann » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:14 PM UTC

Xeamek wrote: post #66

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Political pluralism should be the default. When an "us vs them" mentality is embedded in every aspect of society, those are the conditions that lead to horrible governments arising. It becomes more about protecting/promoting the "us" and screwing over the "them" than running a functional fair government.

>Political pluralism should be the default. Agreed. But that doesn't mean that EVERY and ALL political view should be respected. You can have political pluralism in some restricted spectrum, but not accept things that are too extreeme. Not tolerating human rights abuse doesn't automatically lead to every aspect of life being overtaken by "us vs them" mentality. Claiming that it does is nothing more then a slippery sl…

>> Political pluralism should be the default.

> Agreed.

> But that doesn't mean that EVERY and ALL political view should be respected.

Exactly, the difference is called “relativism”.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#157

Post by znpy » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:15 PM UTC

melagonster wrote: post #147

kabanda1 wrote: post #96

My guess is that this has much to do with how much they get out of Africa. It seems like they don't see the benefit of funding those conferences. About LBGTQ This looks to me like the Western behaviour where they sanction the whole country to death because they don't agree with policies of people in power. I am an African. And I live in a country where such laws targeting LGBTQ has been enacted. FYI, Most people here…

>You know very well that coders are among the most reserved people on earth. Do not free/open source software activity or geek culture feel like more close to leftwing? p.s., this comment doesn't try to refute you.

It looks like that from outside but it really isn’t.

Stallman fir example was very clear about free software having nothing to do with communism, but of course people take just what they want from facts and ignore what they don’t want/like.

But, as i grow older, i realise itself not just software and it, it’s like that in most things.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#158

Post by biorach » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:15 PM UTC

dual_dingo wrote: post #128

Maybe it's my experience from working in grant driven academia, but applying for a grant 4 months before you need the money and then complaining because it took three short months to get a decision is ridiculous. Applying later than a year in advance is too late.

This is not grant driven acedemia. This is the PSF, not encumbered with layers of beurocracy, audits and regulation. An expectation of a turn round time of a few weeks is entirely reasonable

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#159

Post by ttyprintk » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:15 PM UTC

Longhanks wrote: post #134

isodev wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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It’s about this statement:

> no one is going to ask your sexual orientation at the airport

This is not ensured, even if the Tanzanian people are themselves renown for their hospitality.

Re: An Open Letter to the Python Software Foundation

#160

Post by viraptor » Wed, Dec 06, 2023, 1:15 PM UTC

gwervc wrote: post #100

Xeamek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need LGBT hunt squads. All you need is the fact that a gay couple holding hands or kissing publicly is unsafe. "Then just don't kiss publicly". Sure, hiding one's sexuality isn't that hard, especially for a short period of time. But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place. Home people might know you, but in home country you are against only bigoted individuals, not the en…

> But that's the whole problem: they shouldn't have to hide it in the first place. In Rome do as the Romans do. Cultural norms differ by countries and should be respected. Also this kind of indignation is very selective, I've never read a software fundation complaining about it being unsafe to travel as a christian in Marocco (where owing a bible is forbidden by law) for example.

> where owing a bible is forbidden by law

That's not a great comparison. You can choose if you bring a Bible with you or not - this seems like a law about Bibles, not about being a Christian. You can't choose to not be gay/trans for some time - even if you hide it, the relevant records may be public and easy to find if some law enforcement.