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Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

farewell.bostonunitygroup.com

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Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#151
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unity has been on a buying spree including traditional TV/Movie CGI firms for some insane reason†. They're just plain _bad_ at spending money. († Yes, I know the growth potential from real-time to rendered. I still think it's a terrible investment.)

Is unity used for movie's CGI? I can only think of one example of shows made with unity (it's bad): https://myanimelist.net/anime/38853/Ex-Arm

Unreal has enjoyed a ton of success for tv/movie production lately, being used in "the Volume", I have to guess they're trying to keep up.

Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that Unity is about 10x the size it needs to be. They could shed a significant portion of their employees and still produce a good product. They are in the perpetual growth trap that so many of these companies fall into when they get bigger than a niche audience

That sounds like a Musk job

Hiring is too much people is much easier than firing them. If you cut 90% of the staff keeping the people you'd want to retain is pretty much impossible (since obviously the management won't have any clue who they are).

Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#153
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate... Unity isn't close to profitable, and never has been. At some point money has to be made or the lights get turned off.

> Unity isn't close to profitable, and never has been This isn't really true though, their core business is and was profitable if you exclude all the of acquisitions junk, stock shenanigans, and loans to pay for it they have been doing. It just didn't have the margins expected of a public company and so they did all that other junk to pump those numbers.

> stock shenanigans

They pay their employees and executives in stock. They'd have to spend much more cash if they stopped doing that.

Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#154
post #5

"More importantly, we've seen how easily and flippantly an executive-led business decision can risk bankrupting the studios we've worked so hard to build, threaten our livelihoods as professionals, and challenge the longevity of our industry. The Unity of today isn't the same company that it was when the group was founded, and the trust we used to have in the company has been completely eroded." Profoundly sad, and c…

And the dumb thing is that if they had listened to the engineers who were telling them the customer base was going to freak out at this, the company could have avoided large parts of the drama, since a few of their fixes were not even really a change in plan, so much as better more clear wording.

The big drama causes 1. People assuming unity was going to add additional telemetry to track installs. (Reality: Unity seemed to always be planning on using App store numbers and the numbers from any opt-in unity services as the basis of their model). This one was a complete communication failure by unity.

2. Announcing a new payment model never before used by the industry. This alone (without looking at the details) is not a huge deal, but it makes people nervous.

3. This metric is hard to measure, and unity's initial announcement was basically that they would be estimating it in their sole discretion, which makes people uncomfortable. Their fix was to allow self reporting the data, which must be based on something that reliably approximates the revised install count definition.

4. Unclear definition of install was used. What they eventually settled on: once per unique end user per distribution platform (e.g. app store), was pretty much what Unity was going for anyway, but the initial announcement royally messed up here.

5. The metric was abusable, and there was apparently no cap to it. This was honestly one of the biggest issues. This got fixed by adding the 2.5% revenue share cap.

6. Trying to make this apply retroactively to previously published applications. This was the other biggest issue. This was especially bad because only a few years ago the company had another smaller scandal, and promised to allow people to keep using the terms of service of each version as it was when people downloaded it. Indeed, for a while this was explicitly part of the terms, and people who used those versions probably could get a court to side with them.

If they had listened to their engineers, I think they could have fixed/avoided 1, 4, and 6. Numbers 3 and 5 may have remained, still causing huge outcry, and eventually getting fixed, but at least if number 6 were addressed before initial announcement, it would not have been a loss-of-trust issue so much as a: you are a moron for proposing this without the needed backstop, and requiring companies to blindly trust your estimations.

Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#155
post #3

Unity really showing the world how to tank a business by letting a few MBA’s at the top make a decision for profit.

^H^Hby going public without a business model.

They have a business model and they would've been fine if they hadn't started increasing their headcount by 50% every year and focused on their core products.

Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#156
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you drink from a river and get cholera, would you drink from that river again in the future? No. Further, I'd stop drinking untreated water from all rivers. (Just answering your hypothetical. I spend a lot of time in the wilderness and wouldn't drink untreated water from a river or lake to begin with.) This effect, though, has happened with software for me years ago. Enough bad actors exist that I've reached the…

I was going to observe that another totally-understandable reaction to getting fucked in a business transaction (or getting cholera from untreated water) is to begin researching everyone you do business with (or testing/treating all the water you drink). I may be stretching the limits of the analogy here, but either way that "verify, then trust" approach is more work than "adaptive blissful ignorance", and a lot of p…

I think the correct analogue here are the people saying "open source or GTFO".

Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#157
post #5

"More importantly, we've seen how easily and flippantly an executive-led business decision can risk bankrupting the studios we've worked so hard to build, threaten our livelihoods as professionals, and challenge the longevity of our industry. The Unity of today isn't the same company that it was when the group was founded, and the trust we used to have in the company has been completely eroded." Profoundly sad, and c…

It's really more nuanced than that - from a business/financial perspective. "goodwill" is a major component of a companies financial accounting. It's an asset and can be invested or squandered like any other asset. A large and well-run public company will have a risk management team evaluate the impact of major decisions on the financial health of the business. Clearly Unity did not do that. They are public, right? Seems to me (IANAL) this is a breach of fiduciary duty that could be actionable.

Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#158
> Over the past few years, Unity has unfortunately shifted its focus away from the games industry and away from supporting developer communities. Following the IPO, the company has seemingly put profit over all else, with several acquisitions and layoffs of core personnel. Many key systems that developers need are still left in a confusing and often incomplete state, with the messaging that advertising and revenue matter more to Unity than the functionality game developers care about.

> Recently, Unity unveiled a set of unthinkably hostile terms of service and pricing changes for its users. The resounding, unequivocal condemnation from the games industry was unprecedented and Unity had no choice but to rescind some of the most egregious changes. Even with these new concessions, the revised pricing model disproportionately affects the success of indie studios in our community.

That strategy, including hyper-aggressive changes in terms, seems common across different businesses and industries. A recent one in the news was Hasbro's move with some of their leading game products.

I asked something similar in another thread: Does anyone know the story behind this phenomenon? Is there a name for it? A paper or book or 'expert' that is its genesis?

Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#159

like getting blood from a stone... Most of those open-source companies turn "evil" stories (like IBM/redhat ) seems to follow the same pattern. IMO, there is a limit of the amount of value one can extract from those venture. Trying to increase revenue beyond a certain limit will always result very bad outcome. But i also think it's a lesson for the gaming industry. Why is something as core are a game engine, not some…

Why would I even want to build a game if I'm going to have to give between 4-8% of everything I make to steam and unity? I completely understand why nearly every AAA studio builds their own client and game engine, it's cheaper in the long run.

> 4-8% of everything

To be fair Unity is asking you to give them somewhere between 0.05% and 2.5% while Steam/Apple/etc. want 30%.

> AAA studio builds their own client and game engine, it's cheaper in the long run

I don't think it's because of the rev share. If they were able to acquire an engine which fully suits their needs for only 5% that'd would be a great deal. Unfortunately adapting an off the shelf for a AAA game might be just as expensive as building (or at least upgrading) your own engine.

Re: Unity's oldest community announces dissolution

#160
post #13

Unity really showing the world how to tank a business by letting a few MBA’s at the top make a decision for profit.

To play devil's advocate... Unity isn't close to profitable, and never has been. At some point money has to be made or the lights get turned off.

> Unity isn't close to profitable, and never has been

Talk about the consequences of letting a bunch of incompetent MBAs loose at the top.

They had more than enough revenue to be profitable.

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