Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers • Hacker News Board

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#151

Post by CameronNemo » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

nlh wrote: post #42

US perspective (eg theft of bikes / crime is not AS serious a problem as Brazil, although it can be bad): I'm a bit torn here. On the one hand, I fully empathize with the delivery drivers (particularly if the rules / policy of the app is NOT doorstep delivery) and where theft is a real issue. However, as a (US) consumer, where the apps DO allow us to request doorstep delivery, I think there is no issue with consumers…

consumers do have the right to expect to receive a service they've paid for

So called "independent contractors" also have the right to decide which contracts they will and will not take. Do Uber Eats and Doordash allow them to deny these "doorstep delivery for apartments in theft-prone cities" jobs?

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#152

Post by lotsofpulp » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

daneel_w wrote: post #57

ajhurliman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With what employees?

Wrong perspective. When enough customers are fed up there will be an opportunity ripe for entrepreneurship. Labour is always in greater supply than customers.

>Labour is always in greater supply than customers.

How does this square with the fact that a greater and greater proportion of the population is of non working age?

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#153

Post by shrx » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:15 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #147

nlh wrote: post #42

US perspective (eg theft of bikes / crime is not AS serious a problem as Brazil, although it can be bad): I'm a bit torn here. On the one hand, I fully empathize with the delivery drivers (particularly if the rules / policy of the app is NOT doorstep delivery) and where theft is a real issue. However, as a (US) consumer, where the apps DO allow us to request doorstep delivery, I think there is no issue with consumers…

> US perspective (eg theft of bikes / crime is not AS serious a problem as Brazil, although it can be bad): In the US we take the utilitarian perspective that the thief who took my bike has gained more happiness than I have lost without it, so maybe bike theft is a good thing[0]. In Brazil a bike is probably a fair bit more dear and may more likely be the user's only form of rapid personal transportation. [0] https:/…

Does anyone really think this? The hassle of buying a new bike alone isn't worth it.

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#154

Post by edwcross » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #147

nlh wrote: post #42

US perspective (eg theft of bikes / crime is not AS serious a problem as Brazil, although it can be bad): I'm a bit torn here. On the one hand, I fully empathize with the delivery drivers (particularly if the rules / policy of the app is NOT doorstep delivery) and where theft is a real issue. However, as a (US) consumer, where the apps DO allow us to request doorstep delivery, I think there is no issue with consumers…

> US perspective (eg theft of bikes / crime is not AS serious a problem as Brazil, although it can be bad): In the US we take the utilitarian perspective that the thief who took my bike has gained more happiness than I have lost without it, so maybe bike theft is a good thing[0]. In Brazil a bike is probably a fair bit more dear and may more likely be the user's only form of rapid personal transportation. [0] https:/…

Or more likely, the thief just resold the stolen bike for $10, thus negatively impacting the economy (preventing legal resellers from operating fairly; forcing people to spend more money and effort on protection; minimizing the efficiency of the person having the bike stolen; raising insurance premiums) and the ecology (steering people towards cars, which are harder to steal, at least without insurance; forcing people to re-buy bikes and stolen goods). Proper wealth redistribution is not stealing, at least not this kind of "petty stealing".

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#155

Post by marcosdumay » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:16 PM UTC

kevincox wrote: post #94

rendall wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The expectations should be clear on both sides. If I am expecting delivery to my streetfront I will be happy to go down and get it. That's great, and apparently you are not the kind of app user that the deliverers are up upset about. > "According to Rappi and iFood, which control over 90% of Brazil’s app delivery market, drivers do not need to make doorstep deliveries. On paper, representatives from both companies…

Sounds like they should add a toggle in the app to get that extra service for extra payment.

No, they shouldn't.

But they should make it clear on their interface. I'm sure it's on some terms of use somewhere, but this information is missing from the entire UI of the app.

(Not that this would impact most people. Closed spaces in Brazil usually disallow delivery people from entering too.)

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#156

Post by onlyrealcuzzo » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:20 PM UTC

jghn wrote: post #118

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean - after expenses, they're getting paid like $8 per hour. It sucks, sure. But what level of service do you expect for non-livable wages?

Sure, but that was true 20+ years ago too and they came to your door. I don't disagree with the larger point per se, I just find it interesting that it changed.

> Sure, but that was true 20+ years ago too and they came to your door.

Not really. Minimum wage adjusted for inflation - and especially rent - is down in most places.

You can't pay people $2 for something and that $2 goes less and less far and expect your quality of service to not get worse.

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#157

Post by eddtests » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:23 PM UTC

mistercheph wrote: post #139

eddtests wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or quick groceries for the elderly? There are a lot of people using these apps beyond fast food for lazy people. For example I used to order a lot from a meal prep place that did chicken, rice, and broccoli when I was working in another state and didn't have access to a kitchen. If someone asks for lunch to be delivered because they're stuck in a meeting it doesn't help if they have to go somewhere to pick it up. Etc…

I love how when the consumer class talks about the service class, they always allude to the needs of the elderly and disabled population, and the immediately go into a story about their needs that are supposed to sound elderly or disabled-adjacent, but its a scenario that is certainly not the tear jerker you were expecting like someone stuck in a meeting that doesn't have access to a kitchen and wants chicken rice an…

> What you have deliberately neglected to mention is that there is a desk at the first floor of the building where the food can be left for you to come downstairs and get after your meeting

If your apartment block has a front desk then that's fantastic but mine doesn't - if it is left outside it will probably be stolen.

> you are just piggybacking on their tears to make yourself feel better

Seems a little ad hominem, but taking it positively, a delivery worker should assume the worst and deliver to the door just in case there's a reason they've ordered a delivery and can't come downstairs unless something else has been agreed. They might be self isolating for covid for example. There's so many examples of why it should be delivered to the door, and there's no way to know if it is or isn't valid for that delivery, so that's what should happen.

> I love how when the consumer class talks about the service class ... but its a scenario that is certainly not the tear jerker you were expecting

That's why I added the other examples. Chill out a little.

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#158

Post by skyyler » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:27 PM UTC

CameronNemo wrote: post #151

nlh wrote: post #42

US perspective (eg theft of bikes / crime is not AS serious a problem as Brazil, although it can be bad): I'm a bit torn here. On the one hand, I fully empathize with the delivery drivers (particularly if the rules / policy of the app is NOT doorstep delivery) and where theft is a real issue. However, as a (US) consumer, where the apps DO allow us to request doorstep delivery, I think there is no issue with consumers…

consumers do have the right to expect to receive a service they've paid for So called "independent contractors" also have the right to decide which contracts they will and will not take. Do Uber Eats and Doordash allow them to deny these "doorstep delivery for apartments in theft-prone cities" jobs?

Yes, but my understanding is that you are only allowed to decline so many of them before you stop being offered jobs at all.

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#159

Post by soulofmischief » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

anon84873628 wrote: post #138

soulofmischief wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, easy solution! Door dash provides such a mechanism wherein I can let the driver know how I would like to receive my order. In fact, for several years now I have used this feature, signaling that I would like the order to be delivered to my door. Fingers crossed for when the majority of delivery drivers actually start reading it! > explain your situation, potentially offer a better tip for the service At some po…

Sorry to hear that story. My partner gets frustrated by Instacart mistakes and I try to remind her that many of the people doing that job probably have low comprehension and planning skills or they would be doing something else. (Certainly not all though, we've had amazing drivers too). They also probably grew up with different food habits and don't see why a certain substitution doesn't make sense. Sometimes the res…

This man sent curse-laden messages in addition to calling me to taunt me further, complained that the trip was several miles (under 10, and they can see the charge and route before accepting the order), mocked my dying animal, mocked me. He straight-up told me that his plan was to stay on my order so that I couldn't get a different driver, while he simultaneously used a competitor app (Uber Eats) to deliver other orders. Instacart support was not happy about this part, in addition to the negative behavior, this is expressly against the rules to double-dip simultaneously.

He lied about ever going to the store, then after one and a half hours (already wasting two) just cancelled the order, saying nothing was in stock. The next driver went to the same store and got my requested items.

I haven't used Instacart since and never plan to; That was the worst customer experience of my life. The fact that I was promised by support that I would receive a different driver, then was immediately reassigned the same exact driver, was indescribably frustrating to me as a business owner and application developer myself.

> Perhaps there is an opportunity for something like vocational nursing companies to offer more skilled shoppers at a premium price...

That would be amazing. I imagine the only way it would economically work is if it were government owned/subsidized, since the kind of people who need this most (at least in the US) are already spending an exorbitant amount on health care and often don't have that kind of extra money lying around.

Re: Come downstairs or we’ll eat your order, delivery workers tell customers

#160

Post by saberience » Tue, Sep 05, 2023, 4:29 PM UTC

arijun wrote: post #71

bell-cot wrote: post #35

Zzz. Expecting the delivery workers to eat the difference between "5-second hand-off to somebody who's waiting at the street entrance"* and "gotta secure their vehicle & stuff and get through your building security and figure our where your apartment is and trek up there and..." is an age-old "treat your servants like shit because you can" move. *The article is very clear that the delivery app's Terms of Service spec…

Comparing it with a 5-second hand off is like one of those bar graphs that cuts off the origin to make the difference in the bars look bigger. It’s more a difference between a 15 and 18 minute delivery. Not nothing, but I don’t see a huge difference between that and someone who lives 18 minutes away. I personally go down to meet them, but mostly because it’s faster for me to run down than wait for them to take my slo…

Where I live it's definitely NOT the difference between 15 and 18 mins. I'm on the 69th floor on a tower with fairly strict security and nowhere to really park outside, so it's really more of a 10 minute (minimum) process to find parking, go through security, find the right lift (there are 10 lifts going to different floor subsets), waiting for the lift (sometimes can be several minutes if they are in use).

So basically it's a big pain in the ass for delivery people who are already not being paid a livable wage.