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France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

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Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#151
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then God bless that the United States is a Republic[1] and not a Democracy, such that my rights should never be beholden to such contemptible motives. Also, this is a very materialistic view of money. You falsely assume that money's sole use is the acquisition of material goods, and not what it really is, the transfer of value. Wealthy and poor alike choose to donate to and support causes they see as perpetuating the…

Self-righteous indignation ahoy! We must have entered yet another ideal-free-markets vs. everything else discussion on Hacker News. Frustrated as you may be that others don't share your ideals here, your entire comment is huge, deep red, herring. And there is much more to monopolies than just 'success', you silly. Ever heard of the Microsoft tax? Every OEM was in a losing position if they dared to offer a non-Microso…

I don't expect anyone to share my values, nor do I care if they do for the sake of the argument, as you'll note below where I went out of my way to thank @arg01 for his reasoned argument.

You probably won't like this, but those businesses existed because of what Microsoft created and it deserved to charge whatever it liked to its customers. We are speaking here of rights, not virtues or morality, so you'll find my "self-righteous indignation" to be in short supply. Just as Microsoft was free to charge what they liked for the fruits of their labor, OEMs were free to not attempt to profit off a product Microsoft created. Microsoft made its money from selling software, an intangible thing of no value without hardware to run it on. Those OEMs existed because they were able to create hardware better than Microsoft. Obviously though, it was Windows that was of more value (more difficult to create) of the two, which is why Microsoft held more leverage. This is a _good_ thing to have success rewarded.

No company has a right to profits. In a free market they must compete by the merits of the value they offer to free men.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#152
post #5

Reporter totally misses the point. The point is that google provided google maps for free. That is great. except when all other competition dies (because who can compete with a better, freer version of your product?) google starts charging pretty rediculous rates. That move in itself is what contributed to the ruling. OSM is free for everyone. It is a wiki. If OSM destroys google, bing, etc, and then decides to go on…

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Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#153
post #5

Reporter totally misses the point. The point is that google provided google maps for free. That is great. except when all other competition dies (because who can compete with a better, freer version of your product?) google starts charging pretty rediculous rates. That move in itself is what contributed to the ruling. OSM is free for everyone. It is a wiki. If OSM destroys google, bing, etc, and then decides to go on…

I agree, except with your OSM component. I'm not sure it matters that OSM is non-profit. They still can produce similar effects as a for-profit version.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#154
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who guarantees that Wikipedia never starts charging, as soon as all other information services have been pushed out of the market? The fact that anyone can make an exact Wikipedia clone thanks to the free licensing of their software and content?

> The fact that anyone can make an exact Wikipedia clone thanks to the free licensing of their software and content? Wikipedia could change that at any time. Old versions of Wikipedia could be distributed but they wouldn't be up to date any more.

Actually, Wikipedia can't change the license on existing articles to a more restrictive one, as copyright in the articles remains with the mass of editors that wrote them. In fact, they had to get FSF to add a special exemption just for them to an updated version of the GNU FDL so they could add the less-restrictive CC to their set of licenses.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#156

Thomas Sowell gives a nice introduction on predatory pricing here: http://www.forbes.com/forbes/1999/0503/6309089a.html From Sowell's article: It is a commentary on the development of antitrust law that the accused must defend himself, not against actual evidence of wrongdoing, but against a theory which predicts wrongdoing in the future. It is the civil equivalent of "preventive detention" in criminal cases -- punis…

It makes sense to me. You want to be able to stop the unfair practices before all the competition dies out.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certain markets have high barriers to entry. If the local sandwich shops start charging ridiculous rates, it's not very difficult for someone to move in and do it for cheaper. When Google owns all the cartographic data, how exactly do you intend to compete as a newcomer? Where are you going to get the 8-figure investment to even begin to make the smallest dent against the massive dataset you need to collect? This is…

I fail to see how you can own all the cartographic data, does Google have a special power which allows it to prevent people from drawing maps? Also if the barrier to entry was so high you would think that mapquest or bing maps wouldn't exist, but magically they do. I would be surprised that someone who is active on a tech site would find it odd that a startup could raise millions of dollars in funding.

I don't think that "Google Maps Competitor" is a very attractive pitch to VCs. At least, I certainly wouldn't invest.

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#158
post #69
post #5

Reporter totally misses the point. The point is that google provided google maps for free. That is great. except when all other competition dies (because who can compete with a better, freer version of your product?) google starts charging pretty rediculous rates. That move in itself is what contributed to the ruling. OSM is free for everyone. It is a wiki. If OSM destroys google, bing, etc, and then decides to go on…

That's ridiculous. How can they be punished for something you think they might do?

Maybe naive thinking but you could let them sign a contract which doesn't let them sell google-maps in the future. If they don't sign you know what their intentions are...

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#159
post #138
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, this kind of law does not make any sense. In the case of carrefour, since they are charging such high prices nowadays, what prevents a bunch of farmers to associate themselves and open their own mall to sell cheaper and regain market share? Nothing, absolutely nothing. They just can't be bothered. Nothing? Never had any experience in retail business ownership, right? For starters, because Carrefour has a HU…

Fourth, the government happily interferes in the market on behalf of its buddies at Carrefour by implementing planning regulations that would make it near impossible to open a competing mall.

That also. In France in particular they have regulated the production of cheese to kill traditional small scale producers (and, arguably, real bloody cheeses!).

Re: France convicts Google Maps for unfair competition

#160
1. Start a Youtube competer that charges money for uploading videos.

2. Sue Google for providing this for free

3. Profit???

But seriously the french authorities are either corrupt or morons, or maybe both, Google has another business model, Google does not want to sell Maps as a service(not talking about the API) it wants to sell ads, big difference. Basically Google gets punished for having a better business model.

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