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GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

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Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#151

Post by sofixa »

evancox100 wrote: post #135
creshal wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly sure Microsoft doesn't even have the ambition to make it profitable. Like Youtube for Google, or costco hotdogs, it's to get a foot in the door (or rather, customers' feet in your doors) to upsell people on all your other products.

Why do you think YouTube isn’t profitable? Plenty of ads in it and bringing in something like $15 bln/year in revenue. Don’t know exactly the COGS, etc., but hard to say they aren’t making money. Android is probably a much better example than YouTube.

> Why do you think YouTube isn’t profitable? Plenty of ads in it and bringing in something like $15 bln/year in revenue

The infrastructure to store and deliver seamlessly zettabytes of video all around the world surely doesn't come cheaply.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#152

Post by aliqot »

AndrewVos wrote: post #148
aliqot wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood it as a reference to those claiming autism spectrum.

In that case, what a sad, pathetic weak-minded little man he is. A good reminder why I shouldn’t come to hacker news anymore.

What I said was a guess based on my contextual perception of the unknown term 'spectrumite', not a literal explanation.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#153

Post by eganist »

sofixa wrote: post #139
gautamdivgi wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Teams works fine on my Mac without issues. Have been using it for over a year now. Fwiw - I don’t understand why it’s hated. It’s a collaboration tool - mainly messaging and conferencing. It’s been decent at that for me.

Because it's by far the worst UX-wise. If you know better tools, it's just shit. To add insult to injury, it kind of sort of works, sometimes, but there are tons of small problems here and there all the time in many cases. I had to use it only for video calls for 3 years, and probably weekly there was something wrong like restart needed because it screwed up my audio.

> Because it's by far the worst

laughs in WebEx

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#154

Post by ecf »

rwalle wrote: post #37

What's the problem with "4 yr old laptops"? My colleagues and I use Teams on computers 1-5 years old and haven't heard about any issues.

> Teams on computers 1-5 years old and haven't heard about any issues.

My 2019 Intel MacBook would sound like a jet engine taking off when opening IntelliJ. Apple’s M2? Doesn’t even get hot doing a full index and battery lasts 4-5x as long.

The quality of life using an Apple Silicone laptop while traveling is so much better. Frankly, it’s an embarrassment for Intel.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#155

Post by mullingitover »

kimbernator wrote: post #72

How is it possible that Teams is still such a poor product? I really didn't like it when my job switched like 6 years ago, and I don't recall ever feeling that it improved in any meaningful way. I switched jobs to one using Slack and it's not perfect but it is a lot better. It's almost a meme at this point. In the presence of other clients that have gotten it "right" (or at least more "right" than teams) like Slack,…

> How is it possible that Teams is still such a poor product?

List of products Microsoft makes:

- [bajillion item list of everything including the kitchen sink]

List of products Slack makes:

- Slack

Microsoft gives Teams away for free and to them it's worthless. They have no incentive to make it great, just good enough that you'll look at the price of Slack, look at the price of Office 365, and say "ehh, we can save some money, Slack can't be that good." Making Teams not suck doesn't move their revenue dial one iota.

(And sure, Slack is owned by Salesforce and they make a bajillion things, but Slack started as its own company that just made one thing, and made it well. They're at least coasting on that laser product focus)

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#156

Post by linuxlizard »

cpuguy83 wrote: post #52
jmclnx wrote: post #7

No surprise here, but I wish almost anyone else purchased github instead of Microsoft. One can hope the founders will eventually pull a "MySQL" --> "mariadb" :) I wonder when github developers will be forced to moved from Linux to Windows ?

Microsoft employee here. I was actually handed a MacBook Pro on day 1, I didn't even ask for it my manager at the time just assumed. There is a large community inside Microsoft using Linux as their daily driver.

"There is a large community inside Microsoft using Linux as their daily driver. " That's pretty cool to hear! (100% honest. No sarcasm.)

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#157

Post by ajb »

vhcr wrote: post #144
w0m wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's overtly harsh take I think. Teams has issues; but asking employees of a company to use said companies tools internally isn't necessarily a bad thing. Hard to improve without dogfooding.

"Teams has issues" is an understatement, the app will sometimes notify you that you have a new message, and when you try to open it from the web page, it won't show up, but if you force refresh it will. Or it will show up on the mobile client, but not on the web one.

Slack also does that sometimes. In the app!

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#158

Post by rockostrich »

guluarte wrote: post #122
kimbernator wrote: post #72

How is it possible that Teams is still such a poor product? I really didn't like it when my job switched like 6 years ago, and I don't recall ever feeling that it improved in any meaningful way. I switched jobs to one using Slack and it's not perfect but it is a lot better. It's almost a meme at this point. In the presence of other clients that have gotten it "right" (or at least more "right" than teams) like Slack,…

we use discord, it's is way better for real time communication than slack, for everything non-urgent we just use email

Doesn't discord have some pretty serious security flaws and questionable data collection policies for use as a private commercial messaging platform?

For small teams that aren't too concerned about that it seems fine. Personally my group of a couple dozen friends and I use it for pretty much all of our communication because we don't care much about privacy in that context. But for any company larger than a couple dozen folks it seems like a pretty risky choice compared to Slack/Microsoft/Google/etc.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#159

Post by vel0city »

gautamdivgi wrote: post #129
ralph84 wrote: post #11

Somewhat ironic that a company that’s entire existence was based on the idea of giving developers great tools no longer values giving its own developers great tools. Only a matter of time before this new attitude towards developers shows up in the product.

My Teams works fine on my Mac without issues. Have been using it for over a year now. Fwiw - I don’t understand why it’s hated. It’s a collaboration tool - mainly messaging and conferencing. It’s been decent at that for me.

I've been using it on Windows for well over a year. I can't speak to how well it works on Mac or Linux, could be a terrible experience, I dunno.

In my opinion, its not the most ergonomic tool out there but its by far the most fully realized tool out there. There's lots of tools that are good for this or good for that, but mixing them in together gets to be a bit kludgy. Having calendars, live editing of documents, meetings, chat, and other tools all integrated into a single tool is extremely handy when done right, and Teams to me gets like 85% of the way there. There's some things it just doesn't do well (like the threaded messaging, kind of a mess, maybe we just don't do it right), there's things where its inconsistent (different features for meeting chats versus individual versus group chats), and overall it could stand to be a lot faster and responsive. But in the end, when someone shares a document in a call I've got it in chat history and in my OneDrive and can recall it straight from Excel or Word or whatever. When someone emails me a calendar invite, its in my Teams automatically. The first-party integrations are hard to beat.

Do I prefer things like Mattermost for pure chat? Sure, but then its separated from the tools I use for document management and separated from what we'd use for video calls and separated from my calendar for meetings and separated from our actual org structure integrated into it and all kinds of stuff. In the end, I personally like all these things being well integrated, and can deal with not having all the custom emojis and a slightly more responsive chat client.

Re: GitHub staff are required to use Teams by Sep 1, 2023

#160

Post by danudey »

BazookaMusic wrote: post #145

One thing to keep in mind is that there's a security angle to this as well. It is beneficial for a company to centralize all of its communication through one service which can be audited for security and also support all the features required to meet the internal Requirements. Having multiple tools multiplies the work needed to maintain security standards. Of course, I'm not saying that teams is more secure than comp…

Teams is great for functionality, and also the worst, most unperformant application I've ever had to use for work. Somehow even Word/Excel on the web are more performant than Teams itself has ever been. It's slow to switch from "chats" to "chat rooms", and then to switch from whichever chat/room you're on to the one you want to be on. Allegedly they're working on this, but there's no way they're going to make it usable any time soon.

I felt constant frustration using Teams and have it miss keypresses, fail to focus the text input in chats (I had to manually do so every time I changed chats), and remove all formatting and trim whitespace from code or text that I pasted, even if I pasted it into a code block (though for code blocks it only removed it when I send, so it looked fine until I hit enter). Trying to view or add integrations would often take several minutes for the modal dialog to finish loading (during which I couldn't use Teams).

I also found frustrating sending files to people who then couldn't actually see them unless I manually granted them permissions. Why is this a thing?

The QoL of developers at Github is going to drop significantly once they're forced onto Teams, because even after years and years it still feels like an early beta release where they haven't done a UX or optimization pass yet.

My heart goes out to the Github team for this one.

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