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Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

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Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#151

Post by iamacyborg »

leidenfrost wrote: post #113
epistemer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lifted for 30 years. The standard bullshit line in the fitness industry has always been "everyone else is wrong". Practically what every single trainer ever in the world has said. The reason is because of all the things I have done in my life, lifting is the most trivially simple activity there is. It is as complex as shoveling dirt. The only way to differentiate if trying to make money is to bullshit. Pick th…

For those who want to look athletic enough, work a full time job and still have free time, sure. Actual competitive bodybuilding is far more complicated.

> Actual competitive bodybuilding is far more complicated.

Sure, but that's a general truism.

People focus too much on the 1% micro-optimisations instead of nailing the 99% that produces the largest rewards.

I like how Steve Magness puts it[^1]

> Good, solid consistent work stacked month after month, year after year is what leads to better performance.

[^1]: https://twitter.com/stevemagness/status/1493946400442392589?...

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#152

Post by borroka »

moneywoes wrote: post #128
borroka wrote: post #41

I have been weight training for almost 30 years. I've tried just about every program, split and variation under the sun, and I've seen and practiced for a time fads that have come and gone. In the last six months, I have changed things up. I now train with low volume per muscle group (on average, 4-6 sets per muscle group, reps per set between 6 and 12, pushing very hard, close to exercise, not muscle, failure, which…

May I ask your split?

Now I do full-body workouts, and all the workouts are very similar to each other.

Monday, Wednesday (Friday, optional): run 5 miles at noon, jiu jitsu at night (I have a black belt, so my attendance is a bit less structured than in the past).

Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday (Sunday optional): gym time--all exercises: 2 sets, 6-10 reps, close to mechanical failure. Approx 3 minutes of rest between sets.

Lower body: Hack Squat or Smith Machine squat, Romanian deadlifts (with dumbbells or at the Smith Machine), Glute machine, calf raises. Occasionally: donkey kick machine, abductor machine, leg curl.

Upper body: convergent chest press (or incline press or weighed dips), cable fly, chest supported rows of some kind, cable pulls for lats, machine shoulder press, lateral raises with db, triceps push-downs, some type of biceps curls.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#153

Post by kristopolous »

swayvil wrote: post #8

I read in a yoga book that muscle growth (and physical cultivation in general) occurs through the movement of a kind of psychic energy (called prana, sati, awareness or something). And that exercise is simply a way of moving that energy around. For what that's worth.

Have any repeatable empirical studies to share?

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#154

Post by dhr »

beezle wrote: post #97
dhr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm planning out a home/garage gym now. Is there any equipment you recommend? Or ones that people should stay away from?

As mentioned by others, a full rack is the best get to start with. I long ago got a half rack which is fine for benching alone (has spotting arms) but not for serious squats. Advise making sure whatever bench you buy to make sure the height off the floor is comfortable for you. I had one that was a little too tall and believe that contributed to some lower back stress. I'm in a rural area now and once again stuck wit…

I've been considering the Rogue SML-1, which I think is not considered a full rack.

What's wrong with with a half rack with spotter arms for squats? Is it a matter of not being able to handle very heavy weights?

Thanks for the input, btw - super helpful!

https://www.roguefitness.com/sml-1-rogue-70-monster-lite-squ...

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#155

Post by matwood »

XFrequentist wrote: post #132

YMMV, but I recommend more people try High Intensity Training (HIT). HIT explicitly contradicts several of the (well-supported) claims in the article, but I've personally found it effective, and I think there's a good case that it's a better fit for most adult lifestyles. [ETA: Just to clarify, HIT is different from the more widely-known HIIT. This wikipedia article[1] is a good introduction, and the book "Body By Sc…

I would add that while I agree HIIT is great, you're not just doing HIIT once/week, but also playing competitive basketball.

The other thing is it's been posited for awhile now, that gained muscle/strength requires less work to keep. You have a long history of resistance training, and presumably gained strength and muscle. Now you just need to be do maintenance to keep what you have while supporting your sport.

I say all this b/c I do something similar. I stopped power lifting once I got older and moved to more HIIT like workouts 3-4x/week. They take maybe 30 minutes each. But, I also train BJJ ~4x/week. Would my HIIT like workouts be so effective if I didn't start very strong and also do BJJ? IDK.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#156

Post by naasking »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #6
jghn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long time ago I remember reading, probably on misc.fitness.weights or something like that, that the lay crowds misunderstood “to failure”, and that it was intended to mean “until you can’t maintain perfect form”. No idea if there was ever a shred of scientific method behind that statement but it struck me as good common sense wisdom anyways.

> A long time ago I remember reading, probably on misc.fitness.weights or something like that, that the lay crowds misunderstood “to failure”, and that it was intended to mean “until you can’t maintain perfect form”. That seems funny to me. While someone's form breaking down leads to inefficiencies in specific muscle targeting and / or an increased chance of injury I think that approach would end up leading to people…

> I think that approach would end up leading to people bailing when things start to get hard.

If you can still maintain form while it's hard, then you haven't reached the limit yet. Velocity of a lift decreases as you approach failure (you're in the "hard zone"), but you should keep going until you either can't complete rep without twisting and cheating, or if you know yourself well enough that you know you'll have to do that on the next rep. Periodically you should try going to actual failure to make sure you know what that really feels like.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#157

Post by AlwaysRock »

LanceH wrote: post #28

They seem to be talking about bodybuilding a lot, but then (at least some) of the discussions move to muscle growth among random groups of people. The two are not the same. Bodybuilders are trying to put on muscle, sometimes in specific places, long after they have stalled in workouts most people would do. >Going on a higher carb diet increases intramuscular glycogen stores, which attracts a lot of water into the mus…

I think the articles actual headline is more fitting, "Optimal program design 2.0". Anyone who reads that will either say what? Or oh this is about body building.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#158

Post by scott_s »

dhd415 wrote: post #31

This article is focused on growth in muscle _size_ over growth in muscle _strength_. The two are related, but it's pretty well-established that you can bias your training towards one or the other. You can see the difference between experienced powerlifters and bodybuilders. PLs move heavier weights than BBs, but the latter generally have more muscle mass. I think training for strength has more everyday health benefit…

Agreed. However: powerlifting style training has more risk of injury. Pushing the limits of what your body can handle in the 1—6 rep range is riskier than pushing the limits of what your body can handle in the 6—10 rep range. With that said, I much prefer powerlifting style training.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#159

Post by matwood »

worthless-trash wrote: post #58
maerF0x0 wrote: post #51

As a comment addressing several comment threads here, and what I believe is a fallacy in the article. The main issue I believe at play is that non-competitive types (eg non bodybuilders) frequently are not very good at assessing how hard they're pushing themselves. Because of that working with 1lb (or very low % of 1RM) is often ineffective because they have a hard time telling if the 99th, 100th, or 120th rep is tru…

I imagine most weightlifters possibly know their 1 RM at least after the beginner stage, I sure as hell do.

Maybe. I think it takes a long time for people to learn how hard they can actually go. There's the muscle itself, CNS, and then the mental aspect. All must be trained to hit a true 1RM.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#160

Post by JeremyNT »

epistemer wrote: post #66
jasondigitized wrote: post #7

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass after building out a home gym during covid. I'm no scientist but following the Reddit PPL[1] workout and eating lots of protein did the trick for me. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_pr...

I have lifted for 30 years. The standard bullshit line in the fitness industry has always been "everyone else is wrong". Practically what every single trainer ever in the world has said. The reason is because of all the things I have done in my life, lifting is the most trivially simple activity there is. It is as complex as shoveling dirt. The only way to differentiate if trying to make money is to bullshit. Pick th…

The problem here is that there really are many little optimizations that could be applied to "pick up, put down" and some do work. Injury avoidance and recovery in particular are easy to overlook.

Of course the magnitude of the effect from most optimizations is small, so it's pretty easy for con artists to claim some secret or new breakthrough.

At the very highest levels people want every edge they can get, but it's silly for most of us who aren't devoted to competition to go down these rabbit holes. Pick up / put down / don't get hurt goes quite a long way.

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