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Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

mennohenselmans.com

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Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#51

Post by maerF0x0 »

As a comment addressing several comment threads here, and what I believe is a fallacy in the article.

The main issue I believe at play is that non-competitive types (eg non bodybuilders) frequently are not very good at assessing how hard they're pushing themselves. Because of that working with 1lb (or very low % of 1RM) is often ineffective because they have a hard time telling if the 99th, 100th, or 120th rep is truly 1 Rep In Reserve (RIR). For a similar reason training "to failure" with a reasonably high % of 1RM means by definition that they're going to 0 or 1 RIR. Low rest makes it easier to truly hit that 2 through 0 RIR range because without sufficient rest you are essentially doing a broken up single set.

Jeff nippard has a bunch of good videos on the subject that pulls from similar studies as the author:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiJKa41Fsxo

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDlhPmT2SY

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekQxEEjYLDI

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#52

Post by vidarh »

dhd415 wrote: post #31

This article is focused on growth in muscle _size_ over growth in muscle _strength_. The two are related, but it's pretty well-established that you can bias your training towards one or the other. You can see the difference between experienced powerlifters and bodybuilders. PLs move heavier weights than BBs, but the latter generally have more muscle mass. I think training for strength has more everyday health benefit…

It was a revelation for me that I could go in and do 5x5 Stronglift or similar and get it done in 40m 3x a week instead of adding on ever more volume, and I think that time saving is extremely helpful in terms of maintaining compliance with an exercise schedule.

Incidentally, it also helped my muscle size significantly, likely exactly because it was far easier to stay motivated and consistent.

In my experience the carry-over between different rep ranges etc. is significant enough that unless you're aiming to be a competitive lifter or bodybuilder, what matters most is what you can motivate yourself to do consistently. When I was younger that was 5x5, or later 3x5 or 5-3-1 or similar where I could keep adding weight as often as possible. Now I'm doing higher rep ranges because I know what I've been able to lift and I'm not likely to exceed it again (I'm 47; I probably could if I cared enough, I didn't lift that much, barely into competitive levels, but I don't want to spend enough time in the gym to make that happen) and maintaining my health is motivation enough.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#53

Post by CyberDildonics »

LanceH wrote: post #28

They seem to be talking about bodybuilding a lot, but then (at least some) of the discussions move to muscle growth among random groups of people. The two are not the same. Bodybuilders are trying to put on muscle, sometimes in specific places, long after they have stalled in workouts most people would do. >Going on a higher carb diet increases intramuscular glycogen stores, which attracts a lot of water into the mus…

You don't eat carbs for the pump. It's right there in the paragraph -- you eat carbs to have glycogen, so you can lift more. Then you stop eating carbs to get shredded.

Your own quote just says it is an effect, not that it's the purpose.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#54

Post by Consultant32452 »

dhr wrote: post #36
jasondigitized wrote: post #7

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass after building out a home gym during covid. I'm no scientist but following the Reddit PPL[1] workout and eating lots of protein did the trick for me. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_pr...

I'm planning out a home/garage gym now. Is there any equipment you recommend? Or ones that people should stay away from?

I've gotten a ton of mileage out of just a dumbell set. I do all the things most people do with a full bar: squat, bench press, etc. Dumbells are a lot safer for solo workouts.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#56

Post by goldfeld »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #46
goldfeld wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been building large upper-body muscles with resistance body weight training on the pool. That means pushups essentially, but the steps-area of the pool let me do them with full hanging body weight and with many wide arm spreads. It's important to have variations in how to position the pushups. I do 30-70 reps depending on difficulty of arm position, usually two or three sets a day max, each set can be a differ…

You're gonna have to cite something other than the exact fallacy the article talks about

I thank thee, I suppose, for not engaging with a downvote like the 4 others in quick succession, and instead doing it with a reply. It seems I bristled the conventional perspective of HN with my anecdotal experience. Of course, anyone could buy some bit of coconut oil and try once, and it'd explain it better than a citation. Call it reproducing study results,

I could offer many medical citations, it is true, even western ones, but the alternative focus of them would possibly attract even more condescension and people mentally labelling my comments as if I was making an argument for using black magic to attract riches into your life.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#57

Post by grvdrm »

dhr wrote: post #36
jasondigitized wrote: post #7

"Everybody wants to be a bodybuilder, but nobody wants to lift no heavy-ass weights." - Ronnie Coleman I have gained quite a bit of muscle mass after building out a home gym during covid. I'm no scientist but following the Reddit PPL[1] workout and eating lots of protein did the trick for me. [1] - https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/37ylk5/a_linear_pr...

I'm planning out a home/garage gym now. Is there any equipment you recommend? Or ones that people should stay away from?

It's expensive but hard to go wrong with Rogue. I've used their stuff in gyms and at home. It's solid. In my experience, great customer service as well. So, if you plan to use that home gym over the long run - invest in high-quality stuff that you won't need to replace after just a couple of years.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#58

Post by worthless-trash »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #51

As a comment addressing several comment threads here, and what I believe is a fallacy in the article. The main issue I believe at play is that non-competitive types (eg non bodybuilders) frequently are not very good at assessing how hard they're pushing themselves. Because of that working with 1lb (or very low % of 1RM) is often ineffective because they have a hard time telling if the 99th, 100th, or 120th rep is tru…

I imagine most weightlifters possibly know their 1 RM at least after the beginner stage, I sure as hell do.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#59

Post by SECProto »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #54
dhr wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm planning out a home/garage gym now. Is there any equipment you recommend? Or ones that people should stay away from?

I've gotten a ton of mileage out of just a dumbell set. I do all the things most people do with a full bar: squat, bench press, etc. Dumbells are a lot safer for solo workouts.

Using dumbbells instead of a bar also builds stronger stabilization muscles, and doesn't let your strong side compensate for weak side.

Re: Why the conventional wisdom on how to grow muscles is wrong

#60

Post by vidarh »

alecst wrote: post #9

Another fact I came across while reading about Greasing the Groove was that the strongest predictor of muscle growth was total weight lifted over time. So, you lift 5lbs 100 times over a week, or 25lbs 4 times a week, and you get similar growth. I’m sure that there are limits here, but this is the basic idea. If you take longer rests, you can usually do more reps in a day, and lift more weight in a week. I’ve put on…

There was people doing extreme rep amounts of bodyweight exercises at one point on that logic and writing articles about it, and to test how viable some of the examples were, I for a short period of time (few weeks) aimed for 1000+ bodyweight squats a day. It was brutal. It was possible (with the caveat that it was possible because I was young and was squatting 180kg+ for reps at the time). It took doing sets of 40-100 or so whenever I had a time. I squatted in the meeting room at work. I squatted everywhere.

It seemed to work to an extent (did it too short to get a meaningful idea of long term impact). The main caveat to me that made me go back to my 5 set x 5 rep of heavy weights was simply that it took way too much time.

But a less extreme variant, such as what you describe is absolutely worth considering for people, especially if the realistic alternative is doing nothing instead.

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