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Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

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Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#151

Post by gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 »

notsound wrote: post #119
gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #52

[flagged]

I think it's inaccurate to call a group that has large political parties in essentially every democratic country "counterculture". To me that seems like calling the moderate left counterculture. Maybe neo-nazis and other radicals are, but that's because nobody likes them except for themselves.

Referring to everyone as a nazi or radical that holds a different opinion from one's own is a huge reason why conservatism is growing so quickly as the new counter-culture, especially amongst youth. Societies simply cannot grow and thrive with degenerate movements which are inherently built on being immoral, self-centered, and self-destructive to both one's self and society as a whole.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#152

Post by bluetomcat »

jl6 wrote: post #111
pessimizer wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet I suspect you look and think like your neighbors with a 90% probability.

Are you agreeing with the bit I said about society fragmenting off into bubbles (of local similarity)?

You are correct that society is fragmenting into groups based on diverse interests. However, there is an overarching political narrative among most of these groups. There are "easy", widespread and accepted opinions which do not challenge the "grand" social order.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#153

Post by throwaway4aday »

jacooper wrote: post #56
maegul wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my time hanging out on Mastodon, I feel like I’m seeing this play out. Many people who openly identify as “tech” people asking for new features, more or less complaining about the resistance to such new features and arguing that the cultural resistance doesn’t make sense. Now these tech people tend to also be new to mastodon. But they also seem pretty oblivious to the fact that they are the mainstream which many o…

But mastodon doesn't hate the mainstream, that's the difference, HN for example obviously isn't mainstream, and for one reason, the UI. Its made on purpose to stop nontechnical people from joining

HN has a pretty large population of mainstream people. Bigger than ever I would say.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#154

Post by z3c0 »

n0tth3dro1ds wrote: post #104
barneygale wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BLM > Endlessly supported Black people are still being murdered by police every day in America.

[flagged]

Oh God, not one of these "we used self-reported statistics from metropolitan police departments to determine valid discharges of firearms to paint with broad strokes all over the country" studies.

As if they say anything about the rural parts of this country, like my hometown, half an hour from where Ahmaud Arbery was gunned down.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/us/jarrett-hobbs-camden-count...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507322/Georgia-dep...

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#155

Post by dougmwne »

donatj wrote: post #142

We live in a time without major trials or struggle. It’s lead by and large to people that have little to say. Most people’s lives are by the measure of any other generation in history more-or-less perfect. The average persons quality of life surpass that of Royalty not that long ago - access to exotic fruits in off seasons, all the nations libraries in your pocket, lack of any kind of physical labor. We are all princ…

I live in a city with a lot of Ukrainian refugees. I have a chance to see a lot of art and music from young people fleeing the war. It is POWERFUL. Paradise lost.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#156

Post by no-dr-onboard »

drewcon wrote: post #114

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

Hard agree. It’s ironic how tone deaf the article comes off, but I suppose that’s another observation for another time.

Another point on trads being a counter culture: You can tell a counterculture is real by the presence of posers and wannabes. Trad culture has this too. Ex: men who hide behind marble statue pfps and are actually single dudes living in a big city.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#157

Post by hutzlibu »

gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #133
CaptainFever wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question from a gay person in a conservative country: What sort of healing would traditional values do? Is it the nuclear family sort of thing? I'm not familiar with those theories.

They are values which promote the functioning of a healthy and balanced society with people less inclined and/or enthusiastically supported for being inherently self-centered and self-destructive. Endless drug epidemics are a very prominent and visual symptom of the damage rampant degeneracy has inflicted upon society and that in general, things as they are currently are NOT alright.

So do you believe gay people for example, are a threat to a healthy and balanced society?

edit:

Oh and conservative culture in my land means mostly lots of alcohol. The first time I vomitted from alcohol was as a teenager on a catholic wine fest, by wine gifted to us from the church. There might be conservatives, that are free from drugs, but mostly they just like other drugs. Drugs are a big problem in todays society, but conservatives as a whole are not a prime example if living sober. Puritans might be, but they are a subclass of "conservatives".

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#158

Post by randallsquared »

jacooper wrote: post #56
maegul wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my time hanging out on Mastodon, I feel like I’m seeing this play out. Many people who openly identify as “tech” people asking for new features, more or less complaining about the resistance to such new features and arguing that the cultural resistance doesn’t make sense. Now these tech people tend to also be new to mastodon. But they also seem pretty oblivious to the fact that they are the mainstream which many o…

But mastodon doesn't hate the mainstream, that's the difference, HN for example obviously isn't mainstream, and for one reason, the UI. Its made on purpose to stop nontechnical people from joining

HN was made this way when Reddit looked this way.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#159

Post by strken »

Most definitions of a counterculture are about the entry of an alternative culture into the mainstream. Those conditions only exist when widespread cultural change is about to happen. Before, the mainstream culture is not opposed by a single large countercultural bloc; after, the mainstream culture has integrated the counterculture.

The slow centralisation of the reins of culture into a handful of institutions goes beyond counterculture. You don't need to have a big countercultural movement to have culturally relevant movies from companies that aren't Disney, or popular songs that aren't by Ed Sheeran. It's a bigger problem than just "we don't have a 21st century hippy equivalent".

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#160

Post by notreallytrada »

CaptainFever wrote: post #112
gbN025tt2Z1E2E4 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Youth tend to gravitate toward counter-culture naturally as a form of rebellion against their parents growing up. Having kids going toward traditional values is exactly what this society needs to begin the healing process.

Genuine question from a gay person in a conservative country: What sort of healing would traditional values do? Is it the nuclear family sort of thing? I'm not familiar with those theories.

Stop gay people from being treated as beneath the "normal" people.

Of course, this is "real" traditional values; not surface-value "traditional values" co-opted by people: who aren't in-tune with their emotions; people with a void a that needs filling; people who need to feel better about themselves; those who would use it as a banner to gain more power for themselves; and true believers without an ounce of introspection.

With the looming bans and restrictions on social media, and the current atomization of social interactions: it's possible we're beginning a period of great isolation, where man will finally have to deal with sitting in a room all by himself.

Maybe this will spur some self-reflection in a few, leading to a resurgence in deep traditional values and beliefs; rather than the shallow, surface-level stuff, such as the nuclear family or some made-up duty to one's abstract family or some frothingly and puritanically mad ideas about sex.

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