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The FBI tried to ambush my source

theintercept.com

151–160 of 164 posts

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#151
post #58
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's... I mean that's the FBI's job. That leak is clearly illegal, it's a crime. Their job is to enforce the law. I’m not sure this is true, considering the programs in the “leak” might themselves be illegal. The problem with your position is it allows the following loop: Government makes it illegal to report government crime, then government commits crime. You can’t report the crime without breaking the law, so…

There are legal avenues for whistleblowing through IGs and/or Congress. You can't write a law that gives journalists special access to classified information and giving them arbitrary information is ok, how would that even work? (That's without getting in to the complications of defining 'journalist'). If you wanted to argue that leaking information of illegal government activity in certain circumstances is an affirm…

> There are legal avenues for whistleblowing through IGs and/or Congress.

Do these ever work?

The people you are blowing the whistle to are the same ones doing the shady illegal stuff.

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#152
post #8

The piece is pretty vacuous. It lacks so much information, it reads as a made-up story. Does anybody know what documents he’s talking about?

He admits himself there may have never been documents. I don't think it reads as made up, but it really does seem like there's not really anything there. A meeting that did not happen with someone that may or may not have had something....

If anything I hope it was just a ploy by the lawyer to troll the FBI and waste some time and resources.

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#153
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My comment has no bearing on the facts of this case, or my opinions on state secrets The fact of the matter is the warrant system, a non-adversarial system based on flimsy assertions and often out right lies by police and agents is not now, and likely never has been a check on government power

And I disagree, because virtually every successful resistance to police or prosecutorial misconduct (and there are many!) comes right down to a successfully argued fourth amendment violation. The fourth amendment is, quite frankly, the single most powerful check on law enforcement power in our society. And people who claim otherwise really need to spend some time resisting governments that don't have an equivalent. B…

And I disagree, because over the last 100+ years the 4th amendment has been hollowed out with exception, after exception so much so that anyone that believes the 4th amendment "single most powerful check on law enforcement power in our society" likely does not really support any checks on power at all.

Your belief that we have powerful checks on government power is clear you support a much larger and more intrusive government than I ever would, I see the government today as an unchecked dystopia novel, you think it is perfectly fine and balanced, that is more scary to me than government power. That we as a society have lost the very notion of what freedom actually is, that we has a society have come to accept the gilded cage as "freedom"

Beyond that, It comes down to the question of constitution interpretation as well. You believe the 4th amendment is silent here, you believe the FBI is operating under authorization of the 4th amendment because a law was violated, a law that seems to be protecting people that are violating the 4th amendment wholesale (the nsa), and ironic twist if I ever saw one.

You believe this because our Supreme Court has been derelict in the duty at uploading the plain and true meaning of the US Constitution for decades, you like many look to the Supreme Court for the meaning of the constitution, you have outsourced your thinking to this body, these people for whom we in society have placed on pedestal, and ironically in practice have given a title of nobility, something forbidden in the constitution.

“You seem to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so. They have, with others, the same passions for party, for power, and the privilege of their corps.... Their power [is] the more dangerous as they are in office for life, and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments co-equal and co-sovereign within themselves.”

― Thomas Jefferson

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#154
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he try? I always counted it among many broken promises never even attempted.

It was the first thing he tried, and he was blocked by Congress who refused to fund the shutdown operation.

Every year Congress sends a defense appropriation bill to the president, and Gitmo's operation is always included in that. Any president who actually wanted to end Gitmo could simply veto the annual defense appropriation bill, and advise Congress to send a new version without the Gitmo crap.

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#155
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I disagree, because virtually every successful resistance to police or prosecutorial misconduct (and there are many!) comes right down to a successfully argued fourth amendment violation. The fourth amendment is, quite frankly, the single most powerful check on law enforcement power in our society. And people who claim otherwise really need to spend some time resisting governments that don't have an equivalent. B…

And I disagree, because over the last 100+ years the 4th amendment has been hollowed out with exception, after exception so much so that anyone that believes the 4th amendment "single most powerful check on law enforcement power in our society" likely does not really support any checks on power at all. Your belief that we have powerful checks on government power is clear you support a much larger and more intrusive g…

> You believe the 4th amendment is silent here, you believe the FBI is operating under authorization of the 4th amendment because a law was violated

Uh... yes? If a law was violated, that's probable cause. It's sort of a definitional thing. What legal regime do you desire that manages to pre-decide on which laws are OK to violate before the collection of evidence occurs?

This sounds like an argument against the whole idea of law enforcement, I guess? You don't think that police should have the power to seize evidence or arrest people at all? (Because before they do that, we need to decide whether the laws they're trying to enforce are acceptable to the target of the investigation, right?) I mean, that's a position. Libertarians and anarchists occasionally say stuff like that. But it's absolutely not the legal framework we live under, and I doubt you'll find much support for it among the broader electorate.

If you don't like the laws we have, then the remedy available to you is to elect a government to change the laws. You don't get to demand that we enforce them differently for the laws you don't like.

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#156
post #72
post #14

I'm not really understanding what the newsworthy bits here are. There's an implication that this source had some kind of huge trove of data, but the reporter never got it and that's not what the story is about. Instead, this story alleges: (1) the reporter planned to meet with a source to get a classified leak, (2) the FBI got wind of it, and (3) they planned what amounts to a sting operation (I guess, it's complicat…

Must a story break new ground and change our understanding of things to be interesting and worth reading?

My word was "newsworthy", and that's a rather different standard than "interesting and worth reading". This article is a gossip piece about (mostly) a self-absorbed FBI informant who danced too close to the fire, may have fabricated evidence, seems to have gotten cold feet and burned an investigation, and made an enemy out of both the reporter and the FBI. And... sure, that's interesting!

If it happened. None of that stuff is substantiated, it's just the reporters guesswork based on circumstantial evidence.

It's a good story. It's an interesting story. It's not "news". And it's absolutely not something interesting or notable about the FBI (the entity that appears in the headline), which was just doing exactly the thing the FBI was created to do.

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#157
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those reversions would solve most electoral problems No, they wouldn't, as the problems (including duopoly) predate the changes you would reverse.

The population, level of urbanization, and amount of information were all far less back then. It would be a lot harder for two parties to completely control an 8000 member congress or gerrymander that many districts.

> The population, level of urbanization, and amount of information were all far less back then.

To the extent those are relevant, they magnify the problems now (with or without more districts), rather than mitigating them.

> It would be a lot harder for two parties to completely control an 8000 member congress or gerrymander that many districts.

More districts make gerrymandering easier, not harder. As does more information.

Sure, there'd be more independents (absolute count), and at least one more often, in an 8000 member House, but proportionate to the total, there'd probably be fewer, on average, than there have been with the 435 member House.

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Approval voting is an unforced preference (i.e., allows ties) ranked voting system with only two ranks just like bullet voting systems (plurality and majority-runoff), differing in that it allows ties in both ranks and not just the second. Arrow’s Theorem applies to unforced preference ranked voting systems (with or without limited numbers of preference ranks) the same way as it does to forced preference ranked syste…

Perhaps surprisingly, no, approval voting is actually a score voting system, which provides more information than a strict preference ranking. This isn't necessarily intuitive, and our immediate impulse might be to object that 2^n-1 is less than n!, but as a quick informal illustration, note that the voting system where each voter assigns each candidate a score in [0,1] and selects the candidate who earns the highest…

Nailed it.

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#159
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I disagree, because over the last 100+ years the 4th amendment has been hollowed out with exception, after exception so much so that anyone that believes the 4th amendment "single most powerful check on law enforcement power in our society" likely does not really support any checks on power at all. Your belief that we have powerful checks on government power is clear you support a much larger and more intrusive g…

> You believe the 4th amendment is silent here, you believe the FBI is operating under authorization of the 4th amendment because a law was violated Uh... yes? If a law was violated, that's probable cause. It's sort of a definitional thing. What legal regime do you desire that manages to pre-decide on which laws are OK to violate before the collection of evidence occurs? This sounds like an argument against the whole…

> You don't get to demand that we enforce them differently for the laws you don't like.

This is a specious appeal to an abstract concept, that in this case justifies autocratic power. The entire run-amok surveillance industrial complex exists precisely due to such selective enforcement. If the FBI were actually interested in achieving justice, they would be going after the highly organized traitors systematically undermining our freedoms rather than small isolated cases of individuals committing a crime while trying to expose those larger crimes. Instead we see this exact "different enforcement", but with the opposite prioritization.

And yes, the people deciding en masse to elect different representatives would be one way to fix the problem. But there are many such ways, and general normative condemnation is the way to maintain and build support for any/all of them rather than getting focused on a specific approach which may or may not work.

Re: The FBI tried to ambush my source

#160
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I disagree, because over the last 100+ years the 4th amendment has been hollowed out with exception, after exception so much so that anyone that believes the 4th amendment "single most powerful check on law enforcement power in our society" likely does not really support any checks on power at all. Your belief that we have powerful checks on government power is clear you support a much larger and more intrusive g…

> You believe the 4th amendment is silent here, you believe the FBI is operating under authorization of the 4th amendment because a law was violated Uh... yes? If a law was violated, that's probable cause. It's sort of a definitional thing. What legal regime do you desire that manages to pre-decide on which laws are OK to violate before the collection of evidence occurs? This sounds like an argument against the whole…

Nice cherry pick of my comment, You need to read the entire section to understand what I was saying, which clearly you have no interest in commenting on. The Charge was the NSA is/was violating the 4th amendment wholesale (and other Laws that prevent them from targeting US Citizens), so in the over all context of this "investigation" the 4th amendment is in fact not "silent" as you claim, it very clearly prohibits what the NSA is doing, you then claiming the FBI is "following" the 4th amendment in pursuit of silencing whistleblower that is attempting to alert the public of 4th amendment violation is ironic to say the least.

Using "State Secrets" laws to cover up constitutional violations is also somewhat dubious so then one has to ask what law is more important, a Federal Statute of Secrecy or the Constitution, clearly you think Federal Statute over rides the Constitution, I dont.

>>You don't think that police should have the power to seize evidence or arrest people at all?

Seize Evidence... Sure

Pre-trial confinement should be exclusively reserved for cases where there is clear and convincing evidence of a danger the individual poses to the wider public, i.e a rapist or murder...

Innocent until proven guilty right? Or do you reject that fundamental provision of the law as well, I am not sure because you seem to have a very cozy relationship with structures of authority.

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