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When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

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Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#151

Post by [deleted] »

Longhanks wrote: post #93
miiiiiike wrote: post #37

Issue: Feeling bad after interaction with OSS developer at . Steps to reproduce: 1) Report a bug. 2) Get called dumb by developers at . 3) Demonstrate that it is, in fact, a bug with examples, test cases, and offer a potential fix/PR. 4) Hear that it’s being “handled internally”. 5) Wait for the blog post re-iterating what they called dumb, talking about how great the team is that fixed it, and see your demonstration…

And the Windows Terminal team reeks of this. There's so many blog posts saying look, we're so smart because they're reimplementing something both Linux and macOS had for *years*, as if the whole world of CLI was waiting for their savior.

[deleted]

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#152

Post by [deleted] »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

[deleted]

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#153

Post by celdon25 »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

Here is some extremely simple advice: If you are going to publicly lecture someone because of a technical opinion that hurt your feelings, you better yourself be a grandmaestro on the subject of tactfulness. That might work within your company if the company had a culture that includes radical candor, but these are public conversations with community members. Setting the merits of your point of view aside, your communication skills suck.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#154

Post by KennyBlanken »

eric_b wrote: post #60
DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

This kind of tone really doesn't engender sympathy: > We get it, Microsoft sucks, we should all be fired, rah rah rah. > I just don't know what else he's asking for here. Credit? Us to die screaming? The blog post is matter-of-fact, and Casey is right: however, he said himself that it was trivial to do this. Is it not acceptable that we use the same language? Your "apology" really is anything but. If anything you and…

> We admit this feature began with a kerfuffle we caused in the summer of 2021. When confronted with being told our rendering pipeline had terrible performance, we turned inward. We relied on our existing experiences and we leaned heavily on our partner teams’ work to conclude the DirectWrite general purpose renderer was the best fit for our product. We were wrong. As such, we dedicate this experimental renderer to the community as an olive branch. We know we have so much more to learn, but we hope that you will accept our apology and understand we’re humans behind this product with a capability and willingness to learn from our past mistakes. Thank you for sticking with us. We strive to make this an experience we can all learn from to not only improve ourselves, but to improve our product and delight you all.

That is "combative, thin-skinned and hostile to outsiders"?

They say they caused it. They explain the cultural attitude that led to it. They plainly state they were wrong.

The "We get it, Microsoft sucks, we should all be fired, rah rah" is responding to the typical outraged rants from immature people who think it's cool to leverage extreme levels of criticism at people and teams who work in large corporations.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#155

Post by Humdeee »

twobitshifter wrote: post #116
mellosouls wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

we hope that you will accept our apology and understand we’re humans behind this product with a capability and willingness to learn from our past mistakes. Seems pretty sincere and decent to me.

If we’re being critical it’s missing the “we apologize” and skips to “hope you accept our apology” and then jumps down a “we’re only human” escape hatch.

In other words, a try-catch-finally statement right out of the PR handbook

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#156

Post by chevill »

zamalek wrote: post #107
ddalex wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except to note that it was not an apology at all. Ctrl-F there doesn't show a single "sorry" in the text. Or "Casey" for that matter. Why is it so difficult to say: "Casey, we are sorry, you were right and we were mistaken.". Instead there is a nebulous ~extended a branch to community and hope to accept our apology~ (paraphrasing) without offering an apology in the first place.

https://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Genuine-Apology 1. Know what you did wrong: > When confronted with being told our rendering pipeline had terrible performance, we turned inward. [...] We were wrong. 2. Keep it simple, being careful not to start up a fight, a disagreement, or open up the situation for further discussion or recriminations. Subjective. You decide. 3. Be prepared to meet resistance. They are here meeting t…

>This is a good exhibit of an almost perfect apology. If you've been okay hearing "sorry" your entire life then I am afraid you've been lied to more often than not.

If you specifically focus insults on an individual and call into question their competence and then make a vague statement that avoids actually saying you did something wrong ("We turned inwards), you have failed to do #1, which is arguably the most important step.

It was an awful attempt at an apology that could easily pass for something written by a politician. Directness is a virtue when it comes to apologies.

Counting check marked boxes on a wikihow list isn't a good way to measure the quality of an apology.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#157

Post by hownottowrite »

DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

Read the thread, read the posts, read this reply... it would've been trivial to write a nice apology and move on, but instead you tripped over your own ego (twice). Well played! Should've just let it go when you had the chance.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#158

Post by TIPSIO »

lhecker wrote: post #139

Hi! I'm the person who wrote that blog post. If you have any questions whatsoever, please let me know! English is not my native language and "The solution is trivial" was meant sarcastic. The solution isn't trivial at all, nor is it complete, because solving the corner cases is complex. I'd also like to mention ahead of time that DirectWrite/Direct2D is very fast at drawing western (Latin) text without coloring (>200…

This is way above my pay grade.

Just don’t take anything personal. Being defensive / know best is in this industry everywhere at all levels and organizations.

Being humble in general is hard, being humble in code reviews is harder, being humble to Internet comments in any forum… sometimes impossible. Then repeat that with two super genius experts - eek.

You find everyone is usually trying their best if you ever have face to face (except server admins, they are stone-cold psychopaths, stay away).

Would bet you both are helpful and open minded at the end of the day.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#160

Post by arcticfox »

Robin_Message wrote: post #49
lallysingh wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We admit this feature began with a kerfuffle we caused in the summer of 2021. When confronted with being told our rendering pipeline had terrible performance, we turned inward. We relied on our existing experiences and we leaned heavily on our partner teams’ work to conclude the DirectWrite general purpose renderer was the best fit for our product. We were wrong. As such, we dedicate this experimental renderer to th…

I have no skin in the game, but I don't think the paragraph above meets the specification claimed by the GP: "we apologized[1] pretty frankly to Casey and everyone else involved in this discussion."

This does seem more like they're apologizing for being wrong and not apologizing for how they treated him. Like, if they were right, it would have been fine in their eyes to use that tone.
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