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California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

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Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#151

Post by SpodGaju »

disabled wrote: post #96
BoxOfRain wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally when I've taken SSRIs in the past they worked very quickly, what took 2-4 weeks was the side effects to set in. Everyone's response is so different though, I had a friend who was on an identical dose of an identical drug to me and it effectively and lastingly lifted a deep depression in them while it was the real-life equivalent of the Dementor's Kiss for me. I'm glad these tools exist and do help people,…

> I'm glad these tools exist and do help people, though I do think the potential risks are downplayed in our society. I have been dealing with severe akathisia from medications I took for severe depression. I have 2 rare immune mediated neurological diseases affecting my peripheral nervous system plus type 1 diabetes. None of this is even remotely as bad as the akathisia. There are people who are cancer survivors, co…

Sorry man, I know several people who were injured by some of these meds. It is not talked about enough when they prescribe them.

Regarding Genomind, these are really limited in how much they will help. They test a limited amount of genes that "might" change drug efficacy. Even taking into account the CYP genetics, if someone is anemic these enzymes will function more slowly so emvironment will trump genetics.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/19539...

"At this time, DTC advertisements are inappropriate, given the public's limited sophistication regarding genetics and the lack of comprehensive premarket review of tests or oversight of advertisement content."

And from the really the only study claiming that Genomind is effective, from their website:

https://genomind.com/the-science/

Citation: Perlis RH, et al. Pharmacogenetic testing among patients with mood and anxiety disorders is associated with decreased utilization and cost: A propensity-score matched study. Depression & Anxiety. 2018;35(10):946-952. doi:10.1002/da.22742

"Dr. Imbens reports personal fees from Genomind, for experimental design related to the submitted work, and personal fees from Eli Lilly, outside the submitted work."

And if you look through all of those studies you will find they were funded by Genomind.

Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#152

Post by pmoriarty »

kilroy123 wrote: post #87
throwaway995566 wrote: post #55

Last summer I had a psychadelic-assisted therapy session with MDMA and a guide (along with integration session after the main experience). It was one of the more powerful experiences of my life, and has led to sustained positive change in my life. The experience itself was at a hotel room I had booked. For just under six hours, I lay on the bed with an eye mask and headphones playing instrumental music picked by my g…

Interesting. So you just laid there listening to music? No talking? No physical contact with anyone?

Also see this account of MDMA helping someone with aspergers: [1]

In this case there wasn't even any music, and it still helped them.

That said, music is usually quite important in psychedelic therapy, and I've heard it said (by Mendel Kaelen, a neuroscientist who studied LSD's and music's effect on the brain) that "psychedelic therapy can be conceptualized as form of music therapy, but a drug-assisted or drug-enhanced form of music therapy."

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJgWKl_vss0

[2] - at around 9 minutes in to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQJZ7nFi4sA

Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#153

Post by emteycz »

SpodGaju wrote: post #136
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like he’s taking a life saving medicine? How many people can’t live without insulin?

If you have never taken these medication you have never known what it is like to try to stop them. Heroin could be considered a life saving medicine in the same vein. Prozac artificially increases serotonin as as a result your serotonin receptor density changes. So trying to stop the drug, not only do you end up with all these horrible side effect, but your depression will be much worse until your receptor density no…

There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too - it develops over time with use (and then stays for a long time).

Anyways, I agree with you w.r.t. many psychiatric drugs. Don't try to spread that into psychedelics though - completely different, it has enough of its own problems and it's not necessary to make up some non-existent on top of that.

Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#154

Post by SpodGaju »

refurb wrote: post #132
SpodGaju wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, these "progressives" have never tried to address the flaws of capitalism in any meaningful way. FDR knew what to do to "save capitalism". And organized crime and poverty climb on the backs of each other. To blame one or the other is simplistic.

So far the “fixes” for capitalism have all made things worse. But no doubt the next idea we try will fix things!

FDR saved capitalism. There is no fixing capitalism since exploitation is necessary for its existence.

Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#155

Post by deltille »

I've been keeping an eye, albeit not close, on this, and have mixed feelings erring happy that it's slowly trudging forward. I've had friends with PTSD for whom ketamine, as the most contemporary similar treatment that comes to mind, did wonders-- and others for whom it became a vice. In my experience PTSD tends to respond very well to that kind of 'break through' treatment; some people just need something to kick down their mental walls hard enough that they can start building roads out (ie. different behaviors, which later only need to be reinforced, not initiated). PTSD is deeply paralyzing.

I always thought a nontrivial % of HN users were on medications like adderall. The ambiguities-- the great potential good, likewise the great potential evil, and weighing them coldly-- of using a medication that can be therapeutically used or abused are pretty familiar to everyone I've known on any scheduled medication. Of course, the 'therapy session' nature of therapeutic MDMA and ketamine complicates that; you have to trust the therapist pretty much completely, and sadly any situation of total surrender is very easy to abuse, no matter how much it might have helped.

Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#156

Post by pmoriarty »

SpodGaju wrote: post #80
tadbit wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that I have to post this and that is not known for a drug that’s existed for this long is because People need to be spoonfed their sources. > It’s hacker news, I’m not writing a research paper. You are the one making claims. If you aren't going to take the time to back them up with trusted sources don't expect anyone to take your claims seriously.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4592645/ Why does it matter? Even if I do post from "trusted sources" no one takes it seriously. Children continue to be prescribed prozac to this day, and now we have the next prozac; MDMA. Get someone here with a degree in Psychiatry and they are a "trusted source" still giving out this medicine that doors not work for the vast vast vast majority of people.

"Even if I do post from "trusted sources" no one takes it seriously."

People would take you more seriously if you didn't come on with the attitude that you know everything and anybody who disagrees with you is an idiot.

Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#157

Post by Jxl180 »

virtualritz wrote: post #44
abledon wrote: post #2

I don't think this stuff should be sold, say, in a gas station beside the humpty dumpty peanuts... but it does have its place. The mental health epidemic for returning veterans for example[1]: "More than 45,000 veterans and active-duty service members have killed themselves in the past six years. That is more than 20 deaths a day — in other words, __more suicides each year than the total American military deaths in A…

> I don't think this stuff should be sold, say, in a gas station beside the humpty dumpty peanuts... but it does have its place. But alcohol (or tobacco) should? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rational_scale_to_asses...

I can’t speak for other states but my state does not allow gas stations to serve alcohol. Maybe beer at most, but that is tightly controlled and regulated via licenses, inspections, and tons regulations and liability on the licensee.

Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#158

Post by SpodGaju »

emteycz wrote: post #153
SpodGaju wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have never taken these medication you have never known what it is like to try to stop them. Heroin could be considered a life saving medicine in the same vein. Prozac artificially increases serotonin as as a result your serotonin receptor density changes. So trying to stop the drug, not only do you end up with all these horrible side effect, but your depression will be much worse until your receptor density no…

There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too - it develops over time with use (and then stays for a long time). Anyways, I agree with you w.r.t. many psychiatric drugs. Don't try to spread that into psychedelics though - completely different, it has enough of its own problems and it's not necessary to make up some non-existent on top of that.

> There is a biological marker for the need of many drugs too

Not for psychiatric drugs, which is my only point. I am not against pharmaceuticals.

Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#159

Post by pmoriarty »

sjburt wrote: post #147
clsec wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MAPS is not a pharmaceutical company! MAPS stands for Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. It is a non-profit 501(c)(3). https://maps.org/about-maps/

Agreed that they are not a pharmaceutical company, but the Phase 3 trial is being sponsored by MAPS PBC which is the for-profit subsidiary and I assume has some sort of revenue motive.

The for-profit subsidiary is 100% owned by the non-profit.

Here's what Rick Doblin, the founder of MAPS had to say about this:

"MAPS has started the MAPS Public Benefit Corporation, which is for-profit corporation. It's 100% owned by the non-profit, but still we have a for-profit arm, and the goal of that is to sell MDMA at a profit and then whatever the profits are to fuel more research and more public education."[1]

[1] - From about 54 minutes in to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZxRxJrSSPg

Re: California study begins screening for MDMA-assisted therapy for PTSD

#160

Post by SpodGaju »

pmoriarty wrote: post #139
BoxOfRain wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally when I've taken SSRIs in the past they worked very quickly, what took 2-4 weeks was the side effects to set in. Everyone's response is so different though, I had a friend who was on an identical dose of an identical drug to me and it effectively and lastingly lifted a deep depression in them while it was the real-life equivalent of the Dementor's Kiss for me. I'm glad these tools exist and do help people,…

"Anecdotally when I've taken SSRIs in the past they worked very quickly, what took 2-4 weeks was the side effects to set in." What worked very quickly was probably the placebo effect.

Were his side affects placebo as well?
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