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Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

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151–160 of 233 posts

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#151
post #95

Current events, especially in America, has created a situation where I think theft has become ethical to sustain oneself. They may let us eat cake, but we may opt to eat the rich instead. Maybe you don't trust the stories over on /r/antiwork or /r/workreform but I think if even 1% is true, America is rapidly spiralling into a direction where a society can't be sustained. For a large part of the USA population, young…

Why are people with low incomes and often drug habits moving to a city with exorbitant rent. With a couple roommates and a retail job you can easily afford rent in large parts of the country.

Sure blame the victim.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#152

I'd like anyone who considers more harsh jail punishments to be the solution to consider that the USA has the highest per-capita prison population in the world. Only 1/5 of those prisoners is in there for drug-related crime. Perhaps harsher punishments aren't going to help here.

We have a high prison population so thus we shouldn’t penalize criminals? How does this even make logical sense? Maybe we have a lot of criminals because our society is decaying. Which it very much is. Drug addiction is a separate issue. Crimes have victims, do they not matter? Rampant theft leads to businesses moving out of the area, which harms the community. There are plenty of reasons to punish this behavior.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#153
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only 1/5th of those prisoners are there for drug-crime (and I assume you believe as I do that much drug-related crime isn't worth the arrest?) then isn't that in fact evidence that our population commits substantially more _real_ crime than in other countries? If so, then yes, let's lock them up. "Everyone steals" is not a good defense to stealing.

> "Everyone steals" is not a good defense to stealing. I'm not defending stealing, I'm saying for all crime in America, the deterrent of jail doesn't appear to be working. That button has already been pressed, hard.

Right now we have DA’s across the country that are refusing to prosecute crime and letting people out. Criminals know this and are taking advantage.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#154

I'd like anyone who considers more harsh jail punishments to be the solution to consider that the USA has the highest per-capita prison population in the world. Only 1/5 of those prisoners is in there for drug-related crime. Perhaps harsher punishments aren't going to help here.

We have a high prison population so thus we shouldn’t penalize criminals? How does this even make logical sense? Maybe we have a lot of criminals because our society is decaying. Which it very much is. Drug addiction is a separate issue. Crimes have victims, do they not matter? Rampant theft leads to businesses moving out of the area, which harms the community. There are plenty of reasons to punish this behavior.

> Maybe we have a lot of criminals because our society is decaying.

Ok, so maybe addressing that will be more fruitful than baying for more punishment!

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has the most people in the world in the jail and this article is about the rising shoplifting problem. You are correct, those people that are currently in jail are not stealing.

And those currently stealing are not in jail.

And if we jail every single citizen of the USA, there will be no stealing! Perfect.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d also like anyone who promotes harsher punishments to actually go through the system for just a day before they insist on locking others into it. Getting arrested permanently changed my view on our justice system. It was a nonviolent offense, related to a paperwork issue, but it resulted in a bench warrant being issued for me. If I hadn’t just received several thousand dollars in my account from an unexpected wind…

How are jail fees not illegal extra-judicial punishment?

> How are jail fees not illegal extra-judicial punishment

The argument is that they are in law (so not illegal) and compensatory rather than punitive (so not punishment.)

This is contentious, though, and jails have sometimes lost legal cases around them, e.g.:

https://spectrumnews1.com/ky/louisville/news/2021/11/03/ruli...

The main reason for them, of course, is that while mass incarceration policies are popular with those bit subjected to them, paying for mass incarceration is not.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#157

Current events, especially in America, has created a situation where I think theft has become ethical to sustain oneself. They may let us eat cake, but we may opt to eat the rich instead. Maybe you don't trust the stories over on /r/antiwork or /r/workreform but I think if even 1% is true, America is rapidly spiralling into a direction where a society can't be sustained. For a large part of the USA population, young…

There was a lovely article yesterday about the fall of Rome dealing with how one of the reasons Rome fell is because various people acted in their own self interest at the expense of the public good. Many of them doing so because they couldn't believe that something that'd been around so long could fail. To condone theft because you feel like it is the best option for you is the epitome of that mindset. It will destr…

> Many of them doing so because they couldn't believe that something that'd been around so long could fail.

I think people don't understand how fragile societies are, in general. Because we in the west had it good for the last 75 years is almost an anomaly if you look at history. And how things can turn if a large majority of the populace has no future to look forward to (like their parents had).

> To condone theft because you feel like it is the best option for you is the epitome of that mindset.

I absolutely condone theft if you need money to survive, not as a means to get the latest iPhone.

> It will destroy society because we destroy the incentive for anyone to create to produce and then we see real poverty. Everyone bitching on antiwork about their hopeless future are doing so from a place where they have regular stable electricity, running clean water, an internet connection, and I am going to guess ate sometime in the last 12 or at least 24 hours.

That reeks so much like victim blaming to me.

Exactly the skewed tech-bro view that is really beyond wrong. You don't undestand that mere existing with some running water and electricity isn't good enough. People need to live. Not dread existence - with just one health scare away from financial ruin - in a terrible soul eating job that doesn't pay anywhere decent.

If you don't want the lower class to start eating the rich / or just fucking up society for that matter, maybe the rich should pay their due, and share their wealth so others don't have to work 3 jobs to survive.

Don't blame the young people, with worthless college debt, with no hope of ever buying a house. Let's see what this will do to fertility rates and how that in turn will affect businesses.

Oh and regarding all those businesses that can't pay a liveable wage: then you have no viable business.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#158

Let the market handle this. Simply close stores with high theft rates, which will happen anyway since they’re unprofitable.

Why should my grocery store close because people are stealing things from it? What do I do, just starve?

Vote for DA’s and politicians that enforce the law.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#159

I'd like anyone who considers more harsh jail punishments to be the solution to consider that the USA has the highest per-capita prison population in the world. Only 1/5 of those prisoners is in there for drug-related crime. Perhaps harsher punishments aren't going to help here.

Consider another few possibilities. 1. Americans are just more likely to be criminals. 2. Other nations may be equally or even more ineffective at tackling crime. The assumption that jail doesn't work rests on the assumption that other nations track crime as effectively and that their people are equally criminal.

1. Quickly becomes an uncomfortable conversation for most people when you look at the crime stats breakdown by demographic.

Re: Shoplifting reaches crisis proportions

#160
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Walmart profit is more important to you than people not starving?

Walmart's profits have no bearing on the fact that stealing is immoral.

Walmart has paid over $1.4 billion in wage theft settlements and fines.
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