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Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

boston.com

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Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#151

Post by bagels »

rmbyrro wrote: post #96
bagels wrote: post #78

This whole situation fascinates me. At what point do people start suing Tesla for fraud? There is no evidence that Musk's claims about FSD will ever be true.

I'm confused: > "evidence that [...] will be true" Apart from provably recurring events already observed (e.g. Sun/Moon position in the sky), how can one present evidence for the future? And what kind of society start suing people for fraud for failing to provide evidence for the future?

There are many claims by Musk that had a specific amount of time on them. We're supposed to be able to use our cars as an automated taxi fleet already.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#152

Post by tiborsaas »

paxys wrote: post #150
tiborsaas wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but it's you who know nothing. Insulting entire fields is neither nice nor constructive. Sooner or later AGI will be available, it's just a matter of time. It does not have to work like a human brain

If you ask around you will see that my thoughts are shared by most people actually working in the field. It's the enthusiasts/fans who think we are on the brink of the world they see in sci-fi movies.

Here's a list of nothing where nobody figured out anything:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_neuroscience

I didn't ask around, but I did watch quite a few science lectures/talks by reputable scientists about how the brain and our mind works.

I also did not make any claims other than suggesting that self driving AI will eventually be possible since there is no natural law that prevents it.

Being skeptical is okay, but you might need to back up your claims.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#153

Post by vageli »

irthomasthomas wrote: post #43
thesausageking wrote: post #17

Abridged history of Elon's self-driving predictions: 2015: "We’re going to end up with complete autonomy, and I think we will have complete autonomy in approximately two years." 2016: "I really consider autonomous driving a solved problem, I think we are less than two years away from complete autonomy, safer than humans, but regulations should take at least another year." 2018: "I think probably by end of next year (…

FSD will never work for ordinary cars in cities. But it may be good enough for self driving tanks fighting in WW4 - AD2050 That is really the only scenario where the high collateral damage won't matter. "We didn't know we where training kill-bots"

> "We didn't know we where training kill-bots"

We knew all along. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge_(2004)

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#154

Post by matsemann »

apeace wrote: post #93
matsemann wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're kinda proving my point, though, by your sweeping generalizations... Why do the cars get a pass for all bad stuff they cause?

If SF is anything like NYC, GP is right to make sweeping generalizations. Cyclists do not follow the rules of the road here. They simply don't. In particular, they go through red lights as if they don't exist. As a pedestrian crossing a crosswalk -- with the cross signal -- you still need to look left and right for bicycles. I don't see cars running red lights too often, but bicycles are a constant threat. And they a…

> So, I think this issue would be solved if the majority of cyclists followed the rules of the road like the majority of drivers do. Until then, people like me are going to keep complaining

Again there are lies. Majority of cyclists do follow the rules, no worse than drivers do. You're just blind on one eye. If you're not a cyclist, you're for instance probably ignoring the tens of cars illegally parked on bike lanes we see every trip.

And majority of issues where cyclists break the law would be solved if cyclists got proper infrastructure. If you want to make your city safer, vote for that, instead of letting your hate for cyclists blind you.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#155

Post by nunez »

tesla bad clickbait.

of course FSD does crazy shit right now; it's beta and it's learning! That's why you agree to not become complacent and have full control over steering at all times.

in my experience, it works well 95% of the time, but the 5% unpredictability factor is way too high, which is why I don't use it with passengers in the car unless asked to do so. more specifically, I might manually maneuver the car less than 2 miles out of a 20 mile trip with FSD beta enabled, which is an improvement over the 5 miles I would manually maneuver with FSD stable. but it's getting better, and it's definitely better than anything else you can use on public roads, so I'm sticking with it.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#156

Post by jeffbee »

quantified wrote: post #121
jeffbee wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the Boston driver thing such a meme? The NHTSA Region 1, which is New England, has the fewest traffic fatalities per capita and per vehicle-mile. Florida, Texas, and California are twice as bad.

It’s the only place where a driver has waved a vodka (or other clear spirits, didn’t get a taste) bottle at me on a highway. YMMV.

Plain old drunk driving seems civilized compared to the rest of the country. Let me know if you see some clown in a monster truck brandishing a Glock in Boston.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#157

Post by panarky »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #145
simion314 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But HOW do we know is safer? We should not assume is safer by default and I see many problems with Tesla fanboys numbers 1 the count for the times drivers intervene to prevent a crash are secret, or are not counted at a crash. 2 I don't want on my village/city some american car that is safer then the american driver that included 16 year old drunk teens and people that don't even have to pass exams and medical tests.…

> But HOW do we know is safer? We measure. This requires transparency on the part of Tesla, but if we frame it as "if you want legal FSD, you have to comply with transparency". We regulate like this in all other industries so there's no reason to think we can't do it here. > We should not assume is safer by default No one is advocating "assume it is safer by default". > I see many problems with Tesla fanboys numbers…

>> updating cars should invalidate previous approvals

> Seems reasonable to me

Year 2026: autonomous drivers have 80% fewer accidents per million miles than human drivers.

Bug fix to improve that to 90% and prevent an additional 500,000 casualties per year must wait until 2028 for NHTSA certification.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#158

Post by baggy_trough »

jeffbee wrote: post #50
baggy_trough wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robots who do not follow traffic norms will quickly become infuriating.

Anyone who advocates that not stopping a car at stop signs is a "norm" should be launched directly into the sun. This is why traffic deaths in the U.S. are 40k/year and increasing at 15% per year.

If you think a rolling stop warrants being launched into the sun, well, I will have to question your good judgement, or perhaps whether or not you have actually driven a car before.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#159

Post by MisterTea »

nunez wrote: post #155

tesla bad clickbait. of course FSD does crazy shit right now; it's beta and it's learning! That's why you agree to not become complacent and have full control over steering at all times. in my experience, it works well 95% of the time, but the 5% unpredictability factor is way too high, which is why I don't use it with passengers in the car unless asked to do so. more specifically, I might manually maneuver the car l…

> which is why I don't use it with passengers in the car unless asked to do so.

If a fellow passenger's safety concern is enough to stop you from enabling it, would you consider a 3rd parties request:

As a pedestrian, cyclist and driver I ask that you never engage your autopilot on a public street which I may be crossing, riding or driving on as I have concerns about its safety. I am also sure most other people doing the same would agree. Thank you.

Re: Self-driving Tesla does 'the craziest things you can imagine'

#160

Post by tsunamifury »

matsemann wrote: post #154
apeace wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If SF is anything like NYC, GP is right to make sweeping generalizations. Cyclists do not follow the rules of the road here. They simply don't. In particular, they go through red lights as if they don't exist. As a pedestrian crossing a crosswalk -- with the cross signal -- you still need to look left and right for bicycles. I don't see cars running red lights too often, but bicycles are a constant threat. And they a…

> So, I think this issue would be solved if the majority of cyclists followed the rules of the road like the majority of drivers do. Until then, people like me are going to keep complaining Again there are lies. Majority of cyclists do follow the rules, no worse than drivers do. You're just blind on one eye. If you're not a cyclist, you're for instance probably ignoring the tens of cars illegally parked on bike lanes…

Again not self aware. They clearly do not here. They are not saints for riding.
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