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What is the inverse of a vector?

mattferraro.dev

151–160 of 198 posts

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Geometric algebra is, as the article points out, a more powerful version of the usual vector notation That's not just a gross oversimplification, this is also flat out wrong if what you meant was that it only has vectors. It has more general objects called multivectors through pretty much the same process you get one, two, etc. forms from the wedge product. In fact, both GA and differential forms build from the exte…

To put it in concrete terms, where does GA really fit into the story of undergraduate physics (or mathematics)? Suppose I want to teach first-semester mechanics. I can get through this fine with the usual vector notation. Vectors and dot products are intuitive when taught well (the latter just being projections), and while cross products are a little hairy, they don't play a major role in the course. There's no time…

> Suppose I want to teach first-semester mechanics

If you need to teach undergraduate mechanics, I highly recommend you at least read some of Hestenes’ New Foundations for Classical Mechanics http://geocalc.clas.asu.edu/html/NFCM.html

> without any distinctive advantages

The most basic distinctive advantage is that you can invert vectors (which is incredibly useful!!) without needing to pretend that vectors are matrices, complex numbers, or some other kind of object.

GA takes most of the advantages of complex numbers vs. R² for representing plane geometry, but extends them to arbitrary dimension, and extends them further (when using complex numbers for plane geometry you end up representing vector–vector products via the obscure z̄w product involving complex conjugation, and it is easy to get confused about the difference between a vector vs. a scalar+bivector).

But there are a wide variety of other powerful (and geometrically interpretable) algebraic identities which can be applied to vectors, blades, and multivectors, ranging from awkward to impossible to express using the language of differential forms, Gibbs-style vectors, etc. Physicists often end up resorting to tedious coordinate-by-coordinate calculations for stuff that would end up being an easy vector expression in GA. Learning these identities and how to apply them takes years and a lot of practice solving problems using GA.

My own experience for the first few years of knowing that GA existed but not being too fluent with it was that I would work some problem (mostly 2–3 dimensional geometry problems) out in coordinates, spending like 2 pages of scratch paper for the opaque intermediate calculations, with high chance for mistakes, then eventually find that most of the ugly bits along the way canceled and yielded a nice result. Then I would think a bit more about the problem, skim through a list of GA identities, and find I could have shortened that 2 pages of work to 3 lines, each of which had an obvious geometric interpretation.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#152
post #8

While the article is written very nicely, It seems that this is written out of a perspective of some missing knowledge. The basic object that the author seems to be interested in is that of an "algebra over a field" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra_over_a_field ). Specifically: Invertability of all elements with respect to the multiplication leads to the notion of division algebra and these have been studied f…

Important correction: A division algebra is an algebra in which every non-zero element has an inverse. The dual numbers for instance are a Geometric Algebra which are not a division algebra because there are some non-zero dual numbers which don't have inverses. In fact, almost all Geometric Algebras fail to be division algebras.*

So your point about division algebras is not particularly relevant to the article.

* - Frobenius's theorem classifies all the finite-dimensional associative division algebras. They are: The real numbers, the complex numbers, and the quaternions. There are no others.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#153
Doesn't seem self consistent. He defines the ab multiplication as dot product plus "extrusion"/bivector (which seems simpler to call convex combinations of 0,a,b,a+b). Then he says aa is a scalar, presumably because the "extrusion" is 0, but you can't have this identity be 0. Just because it's degenerate does not mean it's 0. And the "extrusion" while not a plane is a line in his definition.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By standard approach I mean the typical material covered for someone studying vector calculus properly. This will be stuff like differential forms and the basics of tensors, manifolds and multilinear maps at the undergrad level. Differential geometry and cohomology are examples of courses which build on them. I agree with you that pseudovectors, cross products and vector calculus are a terribly adhoc way to teach thi…

> for someone studying vector calculus properly If you can’t invert vectors, you aren’t studying vector calculus properly. ;-) Differential forms are a half-baked formalism. Unfortunately I don’t know of any great undergraduate level geometric calculus textbooks. Ideally there would be something like Hubbard & Hubbard’s book ( http://matrixeditions.com/5thUnifiedApproach.html ) written using GA as a formalism. Hesten…

> Differential forms are a half-baked formalism.

I can't emphasize enough how wrong this is. It's the standard formalism in research-level physics and math for good reasons.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#155

The article begins: >In this post we will re-invent a form of math that is far superior to the one you learned in school. The ideas herein are nothing short of revolutionary. and concludes: > I firmly believe that in 100 years, Geometric Algebra will be the dominant way of introducing students to mathematical physics. In the same way that Newton's notation for Calculus is no longer the dominant one, or that Maxwell's…

> People know about it and have decided not to teach it Generally teachers don’t (can’t) individually decide this. Decisions about what to teach have incredible historical inertia, and are largely decided based on what the teacher learned when they themself went to school decades ago, what everyone else is teaching, what materials are easily available, what notations are used in past literature, etc. Substantial tran…

> Substantial transitions in the teaching of existing material take generations.

> In 2020 our basic math/science curriculum and pedagogy in high schools and universities has all been pretty well statically fixed for 50+ years (many parts are unchanged in 200+ years), except in computer science where some of the basic ideas are newer than that, and in graduate-level courses that get closer to the cutting edge.

This is wildly incorrect. Even in the past ~20 years we've seen a sea change in our understanding of science pedagogy. Look up the work of Carl Wieman on active learning, or https://www.pnas.org/content/111/23/8410. Inclusive classroom practices are another thing that's come into fashion in the last ~10 years. The curriculum has also evolved; the most obvious thing to point to is the new emphasis on connections to data science in math/stats courses.

If you're someone who doesn't stay up-to-date on pedagogy, then yes, it takes your retirement to bring about a change. But a lot of people, especially those teaching at small liberal acts colleges, have continually evolving teaching practices. There are entire conferences where people get together to talk about college teaching.

> Even in physics, where a better formalism leads to improved physical intuition and deeper conceptual understanding, a transition is an uphill struggle, because symbolic fluency with geometric algebra takes years of practice.

Do you really believe this? To anyone to recognizes that it's the standard stuff in (a clunkier) disguise, it shouldn't take years.

Appealing to these two frictions does not offer a convincing theory of why GA has not been adopted despite being around for, what, 50+ years? The fact that it's worse than existing notation does.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is deficient in various ways when compared to [...] differential forms (e.g. if you want to work basis-free) There is nothing basis-dependent in Geometric Algebra. This presentation started from a basis, but then again so do many presentations of differential forms, leading to 2-forms like dx \wedge dy and so on. The actual difference is that Geometric Algebra requires a choice of inner product (actually, you ca…

I worded that in an unclear way. My main beef is that GA is just way clunkier than differential forms, which are clearly the "right" approach if you want to approach the subject from a theoretical perspective. I see no advantage over the usual treatment, and many disadvantages.

I'm a skeptic too, but I might not be the intended user for the GA formalism. Please explain your reasons.

My skepticism of the supposedly superior pedagogy of Geometric Algebra is the following:

- 3D vector algebra with the cross product operation and the dot product operation is fairly easy and intuitive. Its replacement by GA might not be so easy. So maybe GA should be introduced after the vector formalism.

- An arbitrary element of a Geometric Algebra might not have a geometric meaning. For instance, some elements of a GA are vectors, while some are scalars, but there are also these exotic mixed quantities which are scalars plus vectors. This is pretty hard for me to understand intuitively.

- An arbitrary matrix has a geometric meaning. It's essentially just a linear transformation. By contrast, I don't feel that an arbitrary element of a geometric algebra has a geometric meaning.

- Consider those elements of a Geometric Algebra which represent rotations -- they are called rotors. Observe that if "z" is a rotor then the element "-z" is also a rotor which stands for the same rotation as "z". So there is more to a rotor than whatever rotation it describes. This seems very unintuitive and advanced. (I know that this behaviour has applications for the study of spin-1/2 particles in quantum physics).

I also have trouble understanding where the rule for multiplying two elements of a geometric algebra comes from. It's an operation, introduced from seemingly nowhere, which happens to have some applications in some areas. But I'm not comfortable with a multiplication rule being introduced out of nowhere without being derived out of something. The claim that it has a consistent geometric meaning from which it can be derived is never justified. My criticisms are therefore largely pedagogical.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People know about it and have decided not to teach it Generally teachers don’t (can’t) individually decide this. Decisions about what to teach have incredible historical inertia, and are largely decided based on what the teacher learned when they themself went to school decades ago, what everyone else is teaching, what materials are easily available, what notations are used in past literature, etc. Substantial tran…

> Substantial transitions in the teaching of existing material take generations. > In 2020 our basic math/science curriculum and pedagogy in high schools and universities has all been pretty well statically fixed for 50+ years (many parts are unchanged in 200+ years), except in computer science where some of the basic ideas are newer than that, and in graduate-level courses that get closer to the cutting edge. This i…

Have you ever spent a few months trying to solve a wide variety problems using GA as a formalism, or tried teaching it to e.g. undergraduates? If not, you are speculating beyond your experience.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To put it in concrete terms, where does GA really fit into the story of undergraduate physics (or mathematics)? Suppose I want to teach first-semester mechanics. I can get through this fine with the usual vector notation. Vectors and dot products are intuitive when taught well (the latter just being projections), and while cross products are a little hairy, they don't play a major role in the course. There's no time…

> Suppose I want to teach first-semester mechanics If you need to teach undergraduate mechanics, I highly recommend you at least read some of Hestenes’ New Foundations for Classical Mechanics http://geocalc.clas.asu.edu/html/NFCM.html > without any distinctive advantages The most basic distinctive advantage is that you can invert vectors (which is incredibly useful!!) without needing to pretend that vectors are matri…

Can you give an example of a problem that might appear in an undergraduate physics or math course, whose solution is lengthy and tedious by "usual methods" but dramatically simplified by the use of GA?

I have seen examples proposed before and been distinctly unimpressed. Any serious simplifications in solutions are usually due to some notation-agnostic insight.

Re: What is the inverse of a vector?

#159
It occurs to me that some of these axioms depend on how many dimensions the space has- in 4 dimensions, a vector would have 4 components, a bivector would have 6, a trivector would have 4, and a quadvector would have 1. And so on, in accordance with Pascal’s triangle.
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