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U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

nationalgeographic.com

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Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#151

Post by cronix »

zabatuvajdka wrote: post #129
alienth wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the US and tried donating our child's potty chair. The donation spots I tried refused it because they weren't allowed to take anything which a child has to sit in or on for safety reasons. I even tried Value Village, which is a private second-hand store, and got the same response. Into the garbage it went, sadly.

Couldn’t you chop it up and put in recycling bin?

A lot of plastics that we "recycle" end up in landfills anyway. They are not recyclable because they are contaminated with food (need to wash food containers out before recycling) or they are labeled as "recyclable" but really are not, or are not at every recycling center in the nation. The same is true for cardboard like used greasy pizza boxes with cheese stuck to the bottom are not recyclable yet a heck of a lot of people toss them in the cardboard recycle bin.

> The findings confirm the results of a Guardian investigation last year, which revealed that numerous types of plastics are being sent straight to landfill in the wake of China’s crackdown on US recycling exports. Greenpeace’s findings also suggest that numerous products labeled as recyclable in fact have virtually no market as new products.

> She emphasized that bottles and jugs are indeed worth recycling, but said “our findings show that many items commonly found in beach cleanups – cups, bags, trays, plates and cutlery – are not recyclable. In America’s municipal recycling system, they are contaminants.”

> The US recycling economy was upended in 2018 when China enacted bans on imports of most US recycling, leaving recycling companies at a loose end. The report chronicled how dozens of cities – stretching from Erie, Pennsylvania, to San Carlos, California, – have either stopped taking mixed plastics or are sending them to landfill.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/feb/18/americas-rec...

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#152

Post by patall »

Causality1 wrote: post #88
eastendguy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a single use plastic object that has 1/1000 the carbon emissions of the reusable alternative may be the best environmental choice. Is there any data that single use stuff (of any kind) creates less carbon emissions? I would expect it to be the other way around, except for some edge cases.

Yes, mostly because of the energy used in their creation. For example you have to reuse a cotton grocery bag 7100 times before you break even with plastic bags for carbon footprint. https://www2.mst.dk/Udgiv/publications/2018/02/978-87-93614-... You're probably not going to do that.

You have not read the document that you link. Else, you would have noticed that it states that a not-organic cotton bag has to be reused 52 times for the same relative impact on climate change. The 7100 is impact on ozone depletion:

p. 18: 'Conversely, for composite and cotton the very high number of reuse times is given by the ozone depletion impact alone. Without considering ozone depletion, the number of reuse times ranges from 50 to 1400 for conventional cotton, from 150 to 3800 for organic cotton, and from 0 to 740 for the composite material bag. The highest number is due to the use of water resource, but also to freshwater and terrestrial eutrophication'.

And as I have commented elsewhere: I have cotton bags that I have easily used 500 times. If I had used an old T-shirt for the bag or later use the old bag for cleaning purposes, the 7,100 becomes very relative.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#153

Post by stormbrew »

Swizec wrote: post #35
stormbrew wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice we don't really have replacements for a lot of things "single use plastic" is used for. Sterilized medical equipment, storage and distribution of prepared food products for people with disabilities, and probably a myriad of other minor uses that don't get a lot of attention just don't have practical alternatives without making life untenable for a lot of people. So I don't think there's a world in which w…

That argument feels a little disingenuous. Like when people drive a big truck every day because once per summer they haul a boat. We can eliminate or at least improve a lot of single use plastics outside medicine and people with special needs. At my local farmer’s market, for example, all prepared food from food trucks and stands comes in unlined cardboard containers. When you’re done, you throw it in compost because…

My understanding is that most things marketed as "compostable plastic" are only really compostable under extremely specific circumstances and that it's mostly a marketing stunt. And that can be done at the farmer's market because things don't need to be in those containers for very long. Scaling isn't just a thing for computers, it's also a thing for distribution chains.

Anyways the difference between these two arguments is that people use these things to increase the odds of their survival. No one (approximately) hauls a boat for their survival.

And the really sad frustrating truth is that literally the only way to make a lot of these things that do genuinely help people survive economically worthwhile is to make them useful to everyone else too. That's why, as an oft-cited example, pre-cut veggies at your grocery store are simultaneously essential for some people and incredibly wasteful for others.

This is the faustian bargain capitalism forces us to make.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#154

Post by megablast »

alkonaut wrote: post #134
Causality1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also have to think in terms of actual harm. Considering the US has an absurd amount of junk land it can use for landfills, a single use plastic object that has 1/1000 the carbon emissions of the reusable alternative may be the best environmental choice.

I'm surprised every time I hear the concept of "land fill" in conjunction with trash. As if the natural thing to do with waste is... put it in a hole in the ground? It feels like some 50's conception of environment policy to me. Shouldn't things be either recycled as much as possible, and the rest incinerated for energy?

The best thing is not to use something at all. Find a way to avoid buying useless stuff. Such as specialised tools. Especially in the kitchen.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#155

Post by nate_meurer »

kortilla wrote: post #113
im_down_w_otp wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single use stuff seems easy enough to fix. What seems less obvious to me is what I experienced when shopping for a potty chair for our youngest there were dozens of options at just a single store for a big hunk of plastic that's only useful for a period of months. We ended up not buying one at all. I had a similar experience the last time I was at CES and was deep into the "South Hall" where there's kiosk after displ…

> it's also completely existentially debasing to the people involved. Wow, the privilege wrapped up in that statement. Do you think it’s existentially fulfilling to clean public toilets? To drive a bus? To bottle alcohol?

What's wrong with driving a bus?

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#156

Post by dzhiurgis »

jedberg wrote: post #114
carstenhag wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way most people in Germany would solve this (we need a potty for some months) is buying it 2nd/3rd/4th hand. Is that not common where you live (I guess USA)?

I've gone through three potties and never bought or sold any (we got them for free and then gave them away). Most of our baby stuff comes (and goes) that way. We rarely bought baby stuff at all except for consumables (and even those we gave away when we didn't use them all up, like diapers). The big issue is that it requires a social circle of people also having kids that are slightly older and younger, and for a lot…

I love how in NZ each town have “play centers” - basically hybrid between daycare and playground where parents join and maintain. You are always there to be with your child, tho I’m sure someone would take care for them if you need to run errand for 1 hour. This forms very healthy community of people and friends and trades like above happen. Toys, clothes, car seats - we got it all free…

We do have some friends who were asking “is this newish?” when gifting some item, so not everyone is on zero waste bandwagon.

And by the way, govs should promote zero waste movement way more. Probably starting adopting it themselves.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#157

Post by nate_meurer »

JoBrad wrote: post #131
alienth wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the US and tried donating our child's potty chair. The donation spots I tried refused it because they weren't allowed to take anything which a child has to sit in or on for safety reasons. I even tried Value Village, which is a private second-hand store, and got the same response. Into the garbage it went, sadly.

We bought ours second hand at a consignment sale.

Same; Craigslist, Nextdoor, and Facebook marketplace too.

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#159

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

jeffbee wrote: post #90
ardit33 wrote: post #22

Pre pandemic, I'd go often to trader joe, and they would give samples. It was maybe a small bite of a food (ice cream, salat, or whatever else), and use a plastic fork for it. Just one bite, and you had to throw it out. It was more plastic than food. Whole Foods was the same. I think it is a crime against environment and I started feeling bad about it, and stopped taking samples when there were plastic utensils. It t…

Most American consumers who find themselves at the local TJs or Whole Foods should probably feel way, way worse about driving to the store than about little plastic spoons.

I’m not bicycling in 20 degrees Fahrenheit to shop for a family of 4, bags strapped to a bike. And there’s no public transportation. I think I’ma pretty regular American consumer. So I should feel guilty about this according to you?

Re: U.S. generates more plastic trash than any other nation, report finds (2020)

#160

Post by dzhiurgis »

NortySpock wrote: post #101
CameronNemo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only sustainable way to dispose of plastic is incineration. Otherwise you poison the land and water that flows through the land.

Is turning plastic into CO2 in an incinerator really the best solution for the planet this century? I'm down for recycling or burial in landfills, but CO2 seems like something we need to minimize this century.

If it’s 1000 times less than paper/wood then hell yeah
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