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Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

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Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#151

Post by Zevis »

andyjansson wrote: post #78
Hamuko wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still get 4 years with 10. The Intel 8th gneration was introduced in 2017. So people who bought a computer in 2016 can still push it to ~9 years of service life, which is pretty good for an average Windows computer if they manage to do it. I imagine your average Windows consumer will have replaced a computer once already in that span once all the installed crap has stalled the computer to inoperable speeds. This…

>This honestly doesn't really strike me as a major issue. You're saying this from a position of privilege. There are a lot of people that don't enjoy the same financial security that you and I do that will be affected immensely by this. I know a few and this is not news in their favor.

Working in PC repair, a majority of my customers can't just up and buy a new PC just because Microsoft arbitrarily decides that whatever they have isn't good enough, even though it has sufficient performance.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#152

Post by Sebb767 »

eric__cartman wrote: post #111
g051051 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just noticed that my Threadripper 1950x isn't "supported". Completely ludicrous. I'd love to see the technical justification for that.

https://i.imgur.com/wHtf0PF.jpg

Do they actually earn that much from this? They were basically throwing Windows 10 at people for free and they are not in the hardware market at all.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#153

Post by g051051 »

eric__cartman wrote: post #111
g051051 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just noticed that my Threadripper 1950x isn't "supported". Completely ludicrous. I'd love to see the technical justification for that.

https://i.imgur.com/wHtf0PF.jpg

How does limiting the number of machines that can run it make money for Microsoft? I won't be paying for a Windows 11 upgrade (I assume it's not going to be free this time) until I need to replace my machine, which will be quite some time.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#154

Post by Sebb767 »

benbristow wrote: post #24
1stranger wrote: post #12

I don't understand this logic. The vast majority of people don't care what version of Windows they're running. They'll just keep running Windows 10 without a care in the world. Just like they keep running Windows 7.

I don't think Microsoft would want to make that same mistake again. I would expect Microsoft start pushing Windows 11 automatically through Windows Update for anyone on Windows 10, or at least start pushing heavily through popups/notifications to start the update like they did with Windows 10.

> I don't think Microsoft would want to make that same mistake again.

The mistake of not pushing it? I still remember the uproar when people needed to Google how to say "no" to the upgrade dialog - if it did not simply install without asking, that is. I honestly can't see how they would push Windows 11 any harder.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#155

Post by thrower123 »

ehsankia wrote: post #34
eric__cartman wrote: post #27

I hope the public backlash against Microsoft is large enough that they revert there ridiculous system requirements. Requiring TPM 1.2 is sort of reasonable I guess. But TPM 2.0. You've got to be kidding me. Also enabling secure boot is a pain in the ass for users that dual boot, because in Linux, to load a custom compiled kernel module you have to sign it first and do a whole lot of mumbling around to get it working.…

While overall agree, Windows 10 will be supported until 2025. By then any device without TPM 2.0 support would be at least 10 years old, right?

I only just retired a machine I built in 2011, with 2009-era parts. CPU advances have not been impressive over the last decade or so.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#156

Post by leucineleprec0n »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #83
leucineleprec0n wrote: post #43

The hype train is already starting RE: "people will switch to Linux, etc etc". MS for once abandons the backwards compatibility obsession, albeit in an understandable but not user-facing, palatable way as with a unified UI - and is dammed to Techlord Mordor. Poor strategy aside, MS just can't win with everyone, the divide is particularly stark for their user base. IMO though they should never have been remotely as le…

But their backwards compabitility obsession is not seen as a drawback by everyone. In fact I personally think Apple is taking things too far. The people that would complain about the backwards compatibility are probably not the same people that are complaining now. Those people would already be using their fancy UWP Metro apps :) By the way they are dropping the live tiles in Windows 11! So tileOS would be a misnomer…

Haha I realize that re live tiles. I do think the tiles lost their allure over time, but at the least the functional UI within menus and such that MS has been evolving at it's best looks great or superior to others of the day then/now (metro, fluent).

Likewise re cleaning up the start crap, I'm not wedded to the tiles haha! As a reluctant recent MacOS user though, I really love the functionality of the start menu's easy-to-access list of my software suites/programs. I just strongly feel the Dock + Launchpad is a poor substitute for the Taskbar + Start Menu. Much easier to shove my programs in hiding, or to access.... Windows/instances for that matter in Windows (because all instances remain visible within a scrolling glance of an alias/icon, on Windows - it's something truly bizarre to me in that MacOS users don't mention this flaw - the dock is so easily cluttered and the setting to minimize instances into an icon do not offer an easy glance as with Windows).Anyways, I'd still really like them to unify the UI - it's just a deadweight loss for everyone right now IMO. Even the legacy IT managers... At some point asking them to tolerate UI adjustment isn't insane.

RE: Apple: I do agree Apple have gone too far at times... I mean, I think dropping 32-bit support was for the better right now, not too many regrets as I write this on my M1 MBA, though having to dual boot for a class was a PITA last year with Catalina's lack of 32-bit support (and I am opposed to the use of V*rtualbox). IDK, I guess my only real quibble with Apple other than embracing iOS7 design is the direction they're hellbent on leading the charge for with iOS' software model. OTOH, where I part with some here is that I just don't think MS is really out to stop people from installing Linux via TPM - I think this is just usual poor PR and poor strategizing. Looks like they're determined to further muddy the waters lol: https://tinyurl.com/srk9zm7e

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#157

Post by floatboth »

alkonaut wrote: post #116
vetinari wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is anyone suggesting Win11 won’t run on a 2016 Skylake? Yes, Microsoft is suggesting exactly that: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/design/min...

You misunderstood me: are we assuming that the Microsoft list of supported processors represents all the CPUs that can run Windows 11, rather than the list that Microsoft supports (meaning they promise it works, promise it will continue to work) These at least to me seem like completely different things (and have been in the past). As an example: Windows 10 is not officially supported on Sandy Bridge CPUs like the i7…

This looks like a list of processors they *approve for OEMs* that build *new* computers with Windows pre-installed.

Everyone is acting completely ridiculously thinking that there will be actual cpuid checks.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#158

Post by fungiblecog »

Our entire society functions on the idea that consumption is good. And our desire for more crap is destroying our planet's ability to sustain us indefinitely into the future.

So whenever I hear all these complaints about companies acting in their interests - rather than for the common good - I wonder what planet I'm living on.

Until we accept that governments not only have a right, but a duty, to force us to reduce our consumption - rather than encouraging it - we're going to continue down the drain. Market forces and greed will not fix this problem.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#159

Post by mjevans »

numpad0 wrote: post #113
mjevans wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know someone that had to replace a Ryzen 1xxx (1st gen) chip recently because games and other things kept crashing. They realized this was the case shortly after the warranty elapsed. As a supposition, it might be the previously reported "Linux specific" issue for (pre week 30?) batch Ryzen 1 CPUs affecting Windows at last as well. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Ryzen-Se... https://www.phoronix…

I think you might be mixing up segfault issues on Ryzen 1000 and RDRAND bug in Ryzen 3600. The latter affected games(and yes it’s Zen 2).

I recall that affecting SystemD, it is a different issue.

Generally at least the Linux kernel does not use RDRAND, even on Intel systems. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RDRAND#Reception )

The third party that had this issue only mentioned problems with their Ryzen 1 chip and replacing it (I forget if it was with a 2000 series or 3000 series chip) which resulted in those issues finally ceasing.

Re: Windows 11 will create heaps of needless trash

#160

Post by floatboth »

midnitewarrior wrote: post #40
frozenport wrote: post #11

This article doesn't explain why it will create the waste? What changed in the spec, is it enforced?

I have a perfectly good PC from 2015 that has a Gen 5 Intel processor. It is 64-bit, 6-core, supports TPM 2.0, and supports the virtualization instructions, UEFI, etc. I have 64 gigs of ram in this and other upgrades, it works great, but it will die with Win 10 because the CPU isn't on Microsoft's list. When Win 10 support is done, so is my PC that I've invested a lot of money in. So yeah, it's going to become trash…

Why do you think that there will be actual checks for this list. This is just a list intended for OEMs that build new machines. NO WAY there will be cpuid checks to exclude your processor specifically.
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