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Pesticides are killing the world's soils

scientificamerican.com

151–160 of 231 posts

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#151
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland would have to be part of the EU, for one.

Assuming the UK was using the Swiss model.

The Swiss negotiated for 7 years a general agreement with the EU (and failed at it in the end) so I would say no, the UK wasn't using the Swiss model.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could say that the initiative to subsidize farmers who use highly toxic chemicals and unsustainable practices resulting in depletion and eventual destruction of soil is also drastic. As in paying money to destroy the soil and help someone profit a bit extra in the process is maybe not the best investment of people’s taxes. Of course, it took us some time to start paying attention to the externalities. But now tha…

To clarify, I believe the goals are laudable, and the "drastic" adjective was the best approximation I had. My first guess would be to vote 2× yes, but I have some reservations: * I heard that even among organic farmers, it was not a clear 2× yes. * There is the question of efficiency of organic/no pesticide farming: are we going to have a really bad output and something less ecological in the end due to more work fo…

You're right in your doubts and I have the same, but let's not forget we're talking about Switzerland and nobody ends up not being able to feed themselves. Maybe social help will increase but on the other side a healthier diet eases the pressure on the health system (remember the 39% increased incidence of brain tumor in children from agrarian regions in canton Zurich?)

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#153
post #103

Are there any new ideas regarding small scale electronically controlled insect repellents and plant control ? I don't know .. like small ultrasonic transducers to annoy them or maybe LEDs .. or maybe changing pH conditions.

Small scale items in large scale industrial agriculture sounds like something that wouldn't work too great. And might cause even more issues. Makes me actually think how practical and ecological micro-drones would actually be? Have hundreds or thousands of these little things made out of plastic, with electronics and batteries in them. How do you track those and be sure each and everyone is responsibly recycled? It f…

hmm right, near-passive sensors can be made to work long but actuators its another game

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#154
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the sentiment about this vote within you and your group of friends/family? As I pass by Swiss countryside I see a lot of farmers claiming they will vote 2xNO as it presumably kills their business but I have a hard time believing that. Is there a swiss website where I can see current general sentiment regarding this initiatives?

Among friends and family, it's mainly 2× yes. You see a lot of banners in the cities for the initiative, but I don't know how good an indicator that is (political banners seem to have boomed in the last 3 years: each campaign now has its own that people rush to hang on their balconies, etc). As you said, in the countryside, you almost only ever see the 2× no ads. I don't really know how to probe for the general senti…

Why the downvotes?

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#155
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a ton individuals can do. The societal solutions to this has been around from decades, if not centuries. Look up the documentary called Kiss the Earth for a good intro that covers this and more. As far as individuals goes, you can look for food sourced locally using regenerative agriculture -- agroforestry, permaculture, etc. The farm is usually operated as a diverse ecosystem that is designed to grow the soi…

They usually have livestock raised with the crops. People stopped doing this because of parasites, prions, and other pathogens like salmonella.

They stopped doing that because feed grain was subsidized and it was easier to put the livestock all together. It was a race to maximize yield by specializing on one cash crop or one livestock.

Can’t do much about prions. That wasn’t even discovered until after broad use of synthetic fertilizers.

Parasites can be an issue. Salmonella can also be an issue. But I think they are still an issue on ranches where livestock have to live with each other’s waste.

As far as salmonella getting into the crops ... it can’t survive more than a few hours outside of a host.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#156
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with modern 2-party systems in the West Could you elaborate on this? Very few countries i know in the west have a 2-party system.

It's a common mistake to judge the entire west from an US perspective. But the UK is not very far from the 2 parties system either.

France is closer and closer from a 2 parties system

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#158
post #45
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different means to the same ends. DNA is DNA no matter what organism it is in. Many genes are conserved through most orders of life.

Again, I'm not a biologist but I highly doubt that. Evolution had millions of years to create very specialised genes in different organisms. Genes have complex interactions between them and we don't always have a full grasp of those interactions. Cherry picking a single gene from an insect and transplanting it onto a plant might have unforeseen effects. I'm neither pro-pesticide nor anti-GMO but we should refrain our…

Well you shouldn't. We share about 50% of our DNA with a banana.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#159
post #156
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a common mistake to judge the entire west from an US perspective. But the UK is not very far from the 2 parties system either.

France is closer and closer from a 2 parties system

France is currently a 1 party system.

Re: Pesticides are killing the world's soils

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like they are quite drastic initiatives To me the greatest thing about Switzerland's direct democracy is that society gets the opportunity to make mistakes and learn from them with a very quick turnaround. If it really is a bad thing or has unintended consequences, the people will revert it back soon enough. I doubt that is the case, but time will tell. The problem with modern 2-party systems in the West is…

This is awesome, under what conditions would Brexit be a) possible and b) reversed in the Swiss model?

EDIT: I can’t add to my answer above but the point is to ask about how in the Swiss direct democracy model something as complicated as Brexit would have been handled (same? different?). I’m well aware Switzerland is not part of the EU. Apologies this wasn’t clear!
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