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EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

bbc.com

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Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#151

Post by andrepd »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #107
nomercy400 wrote: post #91

I am surprised Hungary agreed. And Poland. The governments in those nations are not shy to touch on the freedoms of their population, and often disagree with the EU when the EU points these things out. Also Poland being directly next to Belarus will affect their relations.

Disagreeing with the EU != equivalent to an authoritarian regime. Politics is more complicated than Good Guys vs. Bad Guys.

Hungary is objectively an authoritarian regime because it

removed separation of powers,

stacked court with political appointees,

closed down virtually all independent press,

made state TV into a propaganda piece for Fidesz,

etc.

Not because it "disagrees with the EU".

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#152

Post by anotheryou »

What an arbitrary sanction. What do Belarusian airlines have to do with any of this?

The only value of picking airlines over anything else must be of symbolic nature. Unless maybe you see it as "balancing the competition" if other airlines loose the flights to belarus and have to use more fuel avoiding the airspace.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#153

Post by rich_sasha »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #104
rich_sasha wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying over Belarus might be a good income for the country - no longer. An interesting shift of the last decade or so of sanction wars is that sanctions must be targeted against the regime , not the people. Otherwise it's a bit of an own goal - you give the regime a bogeyman to point at. As such, this seems like a good, pragmatic type of sanction. Few regular Belarusians will feel the impact, but it does strike at th…

> Few regular Belarusians will feel the impact Why do you think this is the case? The regime isn't flying on a public airline. If you're a regular Belarusian trying to travel to/from the West, these actions are only making your life worse.

Hmm, I jumped to the conclusion that a lot of traffic in and out of Belarus will be via land. Not really sure why!

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#154

Post by capableweb »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #136
capableweb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that's up to who is interpreting the conclusion ( https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021... ) It says: > calls on the Council to adopt the necessary measures to ban overflight of EU airspace by Belarusian airlines and prevent access to EU airports of flights operated by such airlines; Now I don't know how private jets usually works, but isn't there some company responsible for the flight…

So in the worst case they’ll use Lufthansa or Emirates? Okay.

Not sure how Emirates are relevant, that airline is from the UAB so can't really control their actions exactly.

But when it comes to Lufthansa (since they are German), seems unlikely they'll be able to use Lufthansa as using the airspace of Belarus was just advised against...

From the same link as before (give it a read: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021...)

> calls on all EU-based carriers to avoid overflight of Belarus

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#155

Post by Hikikomori »

newdude116 wrote: post #75
5ersi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually the one sweating should be Russia, because on the long haul (10-20 years), Germany is going to be energy independent due to massive investments (also subsidies) into renewable energy. Most of the countries that largely depend on oil/gas exports (Russia, Saudi Arabia, etc..) are going to be facing a major socioeconomic crises in the next decades.

"Actually the one sweating should be Russia, because on the long haul (10-20 years), Germany is going to be energy independent due to massive investments (also subsidies) into renewable energy." ROTFL Edit: Yes, please feel free to show your ignorance and lack of basic math skills and downvote this comment. For all others: https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/ I am sure Russia is not scared. Who s…

Interesting and fun read, but don't see how it relates to the near future, and even longer term. Energy demands likely closely follows population growth, which has been trending down for the last 50 years or so. Once it levels out so will energy demands, with some time lag as some countries catches up with standard of living. Unless your argument is that we will be unable to meet our energy demands at that point in time even with large amounts of renewables and nuclear I don't really see your point, even so Germany can likely meet their demands using renewables in the near future and go back to using nuclear at some later point in time.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#156

Post by andrepd »

matkoniecz wrote: post #27
dmos62 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say banning Belorusian airlines after Belorus hijacked a plane (and kidnapped passengers) is like having your kid kidnapped and proclaiming that the kidnapper isn't welcome in your house. Edit: s/Belorussian/Belorusian

Still, better that welcoming kidnapper and his family for the birthday of younger sister. And I expected such behavior, so I am pleasantly surprised.

Just shows how we have very low standards.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#157

Post by londons_explore »

mcky wrote: post #145

Worth noting in all of this that Belarus recently closed their land borders to citizens [1], under the guise of COVID, but in reality to stop people leaving. The only way out was flying from Minsk, which is now even less of an option if there are no flights to the EU. As others have said these sanctions will likely do more to harm the repressed citizens of the regime than Lukashenko [1] https://www.bnt.eu/cs/zpravy/p…

I'd like to see a worldwide agreement that no country will ever stop a citizen from leaving, as long as they have permission to enter another country.

Even if the person is in prison or debt, they can always leave with just themselves to another country willing to take them.

If all nations agreed to that, we could stop worrying about most other human rights abuses, and country governance becomes more of a free market. If you don't like your own system of government, you can move to another. Countries would have an incentive to treat their people well, or see a mass exodus.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#158

Post by chx »

fsloth wrote: post #100
nomercy400 wrote: post #91

I am surprised Hungary agreed. And Poland. The governments in those nations are not shy to touch on the freedoms of their population, and often disagree with the EU when the EU points these things out. Also Poland being directly next to Belarus will affect their relations.

Fear of Russia is the few things Hungary and Poland and rest of most of EU have in common.

Ever heard of Paks 2?

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#159

Post by Dylan16807 »

toyg wrote: post #79
jopsen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The citizenship of the victim doesn't really matter. You're are not the property of the country where you are a citizen. Especially, not if you live abroad.

Are you saying a kid is the property of his family...? Anyway, citizenship matters, it is one of the many elements that determine jurisdiction. The US taxes and prosecutes (!) his citizens anywhere in the world, for example; and extradition is a thing. Legal protection to a foreign citizen abroad is extended by the host country, and that's really what the problem is here: the journalist was effectively protected by E…

> Are you saying a kid is the property of his family...?

As far as kidnapping or any other kind of forced movement goes, yes basically.

Re: EU bans Belarusian airlines from European skies

#160

Post by johannes1234321 »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #52
stanpinte wrote: post #26

This is not exact, the EU ban decision is not taken yet. see link here: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021... "- calls on the Council to adopt the necessary measures to ban overflight of EU airspace by Belarusian airlines and prevent access to EU airports of flights operated by such airlines;" decision has still to be made by the council, and then - to my understanding - implemented by all m…

> This is not exact, the EU ban decision is not taken yet. see link here: https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2021 ... The decision is taken. You are misunderstanding what you are reading. The press release follows an urgent meeting from the Council. The Council is the reunion of all the EU heads of state. They have already agreed to the ban. The sentence you are quoting just means that they now h…

> That's how the EU works. It's the case for every decision taken and law passed by the EU.

Not exactly. It depends on the area of law one is in.

For some areas of law the EU itself can create law in itself which immediately becomes law in the member states, overriding member state's laws (typically via EU Regulation)

But this works only in areas where EU contracts give those powers to EU.

Of course this then still depends on execution by the member states, but it is a law and affected citizens can sue accordingly if a member doesn't execute.

Air control is related to defense etc. and is not such an area, thus EU's powers are limited and individual member states have to agree according to their individual legal frameworks.

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