Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 182 posts

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#151

Post by kelnos »

bugsy wrote: post #140
jamesaguilar wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find etiquette fascinating, so I've read some books on it. Particularly, in tipping etiquette, prescriptive books seem to agree about one thing: In the US, if you're going to tip less than 15%, you should not tip at all. You should leave nothing and ask to speak with a manager to explain why you won't. If the failure in service doesn't rise to that level, then 15% is the minimum polite tip. Of course, it's your wal…

The books are not correct as far as practice goes. 10% was standard for years and 15% for great service. Waiters of course have been trying to promote 20%, 22.5% and more as normal. 10% is not great, but is what senior citizens and rich politicians will leave if they tip at all.

I've also noticed that many lower-end restaurants will print pre-computed tip values at the bottom of the sales receipt for 15%, 18%, and 20% (both as a prompt and as a "nice" thing to do so you don't have to do the math yourself). But these values seem to always be calculated off the post-tax cost of the meal, whereas convention seems to be that you tip based on the pre-tax subtotal.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#152

Post by kelnos »

bloggergirl wrote: post #112
ghshephard wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side note - in California 18.5% is the customary practice for tips, though, to make it easy, you can round up to 20%. No service person will complain. If you get lackluster service, you can point it out with a 15% tip. Poor service gets a 10% tip, and, will make it clear you are unhappy. After 15 years of doing this (I'm from Canada, where tips aren't as proscribed, though they are still expected) I find it awkward a…

I'm in Canada, where tipping is just as expected as it is in the US. However, here it seems that 15% is standard for good service; 10% for fair service or a buffet/brunch meal (where the server was less-involved); and 20% or more for fantastic service. I had no idea California was so high. Servers in all proper US/Canadian restaurants have to "tip out", which means paying a percentage of what should have been their t…

Interesting; in the US it's common practice for all tips received to be pooled, and then divided among the waitstaff, busboys, etc. I'm not sure if they're divided equally, but everyone should at least get a pre-decided portion.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#153

Post by palebluedot »

The whole point of a business (especially restaurant) using Groupon is to gain a repeat customer base. To that end, it would make more sense to give better than normal service to the 'cheap' Grouponers.

For a restaurant, what will cause people to come back is quality & service - so if you are outlaying cash (via discounts) to gain customers, you would think you would go out of your way to gain a repeat customer.

Perhaps this is more of an education for the wait staff, and perhaps the restaurant owners should realize the people using a coupon may not tip well, and make up some of the difference for the wait staff - and emphasis the importance of converting them through service & quality to be repeat customers.

Otherwise - why would the owners do the Groupon at all?

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#154

Post by ghshephard »

bugsy wrote: post #140
jamesaguilar wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find etiquette fascinating, so I've read some books on it. Particularly, in tipping etiquette, prescriptive books seem to agree about one thing: In the US, if you're going to tip less than 15%, you should not tip at all. You should leave nothing and ask to speak with a manager to explain why you won't. If the failure in service doesn't rise to that level, then 15% is the minimum polite tip. Of course, it's your wal…

The books are not correct as far as practice goes. 10% was standard for years and 15% for great service. Waiters of course have been trying to promote 20%, 22.5% and more as normal. 10% is not great, but is what senior citizens and rich politicians will leave if they tip at all.

10% is considered an insult in California, and will be treated as such.

I accidentally left a 10% tip at Fisherman's Wharf (Early on in my california experience), and was approached by the Maitre D as I was departing, asking what was wrong.

If you can't afford to tip, best just not to eat there in the first place.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#155

Post by Sazzy »

I had a similar situation with Living Social and a deal booked for English Tea in London. They had tables available right up until the point I said I had a coupon, they then told me they were fully booked, past the date of the voucher. Complained but only ever got 1 out of the 2 vouchers purchased (at £21 each) refunded.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#157

Post by vaoinwie »

contactdick wrote: post #80
vaoinwie wrote: post #76

i think you're missing that the entire point of "tapas" restaurants is to rip you off in the first place. "how can we get someone to pay for their entire meal as appetizers?" some MBA student got a good grade for that one

I hope we can contribute at least some part of the kudos for inventing tapas restaurants to the Spanish as well as the MBA students.

i'm not referring to spain, where delicious tapas are cheap and plentiful, but to the americanized concept where the going rate for 3 bites of food seems to be about $7

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#158

Post by freshfunk »

glenngillen wrote: post #56
patio11 wrote: post #9

I think you might be overestimating how much insight the waitress has into the business. It may be the case that this was a close, family-held restaurant and they have a daily pow-wow on cost of goods and marketing strategy, but I wouldn't bet that way. My guess? Groupon customers are poor tippers, either from adverse selection or because they either a) attempt to tip with leftover funny-money or b) tip based on the…

I took the same Groupon deal with a similar outcome (although we stated from the outset we had a voucher so no awkwardness about stuff we'd have to pay extra for). That said: * This is in London, which doesn't have the same "tipping culture" as the US. Sure hospitality jobs don't pay great, but both my wife and I have worked them in the UK and you can definitely get by without tips. Getting snippy about a drop in tip…

Here's the thing that rubs consumers the wrong way: "the Groupon version of the tapas menu."

IMO, if a business is doing this and trying to cut costs then don't be surprised if that person does NOT convert into a regular customer. It's penny wise pound foolish.

It's obvious that people are smart enough to spot that their servings are smaller and their choices are limited compared to normal people. That angers customers! It's as bad as microwaving your food and thinking people are clueless and can't tell microwaved food from fresh food.

Sure, maybe you're saving a little here and there but you're almost guaranteeing that that person won't come back.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#159

Post by freshfunk »

hnsmurf wrote: post #27
patio11 wrote: post #9

I think you might be overestimating how much insight the waitress has into the business. It may be the case that this was a close, family-held restaurant and they have a daily pow-wow on cost of goods and marketing strategy, but I wouldn't bet that way. My guess? Groupon customers are poor tippers, either from adverse selection or because they either a) attempt to tip with leftover funny-money or b) tip based on the…

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

In defense for consumers, normally tip should be calculated off of the pre-tax subtotal. Most restaurants calculate tip (say if you're in a group of 6 or larger so it becomes compulsory) based on the post-tax total. So tip, as it is, isn't always accurate.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#160

Post by freshfunk »

noodle wrote: post #61
bdhe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be. I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are en…

this is something that probably isn't clear to people who don't live in the US -- wait staff in the US make around $2-3/hour. they aren't paid a living wage. they rely on tips as their primary source of income, and tips are usually shared with a bartender/busboy. if a restaurant runs a groupon and all grouponers tip on the post-coupon rate, the wait staff will be taking a rather large pay cut for the length of time t…

Actually this varies by state. In California, the minimum wage law applies with or without tips.
Post reply on HN