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18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

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Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#151

Post by DenisM »

randmeerkat wrote: post #44
repsilat wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That number has been thrown around for here immunity. But I don't think it answers the GP's question because * Herd immunity numbers assume no ongoing vaccination -- they more or less say, "If life went back to normal, would the virus slow down or speed up?" * Age-related mortality and age-related vaccination rates are important. If we vaccinate all of the people who are at serious risk, the danger is mostly gone. Th…

Imho you’re underestimating the impact of the disease in general. Disease is much more than who lives or dies, there’s also people who “survive”. A number of asymptomatic covid patients have severe lung damage. Vaccinating “at risk” people who might die doesn’t account for all the people who might live permanently disabled lives as a result of a covid infection. https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2021/01/14/asymptomatic-co…

There are three X-rays in this article, and the covid one is completely bogus. Kind of stains the credibility of the article and the company the produced it.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#152

Post by downandout »

umvi wrote: post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

Who's to say that we will ever reach that point? COVID-19 will be with us forever [1], which means that governments can forever point to it as a reason to push for increasingly oppressive restrictions. The economic meltdown resulting from these restrictions is pushing even the most capitalist countries much further onto the socialism spectrum than anyone could have imagined just a year ago. Some political parties view that as a positive outcome, regardless of how it was achieved.

So as long as COVID can be used as a way to achieve long-standing political goals, there will be absolutely no political will to relax the restrictions, even as infection rates start to fall as a result of vaccinations. It will take serious pushback by the populace - people making it clear that incumbent politicians will lose their next elections unless restrictions are relaxed - to return to any sense of normalcy in a reasonable period of time.

[1] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2021/01/covid-19-...

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#153

Post by Aunche »

worker767424 wrote: post #58
caseysoftware wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is quite sure but we're a LONG way from it.. and that's without addressing the fear/trauma that's been inflicted on otherwise healthy+exceptionally low risk people. From a month ago: Dr. Anthony Fauci now says as much as 90 percent of the population may need to get vaccinated or infected to achieve herd immunity against COVID-19 — admitting in a new interview that he has been intentionally raising the bar base…

> on what he thinks the country is ready to hear He does have a track record of being dishonest about things. Part of the reason he drug his feet on masks was he was worried about shortages. It makes sense, but I really don't like the "I know what's best for you" paternalism.

Fauci was never dishonest. That was Trump trying to shift the blame to him. Watch the original clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa6t_e7dgI&feature=youtu.be He literally said that the reason he is advising against masks was because he was worried about shortages.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#154

Post by farnsworth »

downandout wrote: post #152
umvi wrote: post #3

At what number can we stop wearing masks, stop social distancing, start dining in, etc.? That's the number I care about. Because until somebody influential picks that number, we'll just keep masking and social distancing until the end of time.

Who's to say that we will ever reach that point? COVID-19 will be with us forever [1], which means that governments can forever point to it as a reason to push for increasingly oppressive restrictions. The economic meltdown resulting from these restrictions is pushing even the most capitalist countries much further onto the socialism spectrum than anyone could have imagined just a year ago. Some political parties vie…

I wish I lived in your reality. Where somebody has a Plan and everything is going as it is supposed to. Unfortunately that is not true. The virus is real.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#155

Post by amluto »

guscost wrote: post #103
metamet wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Research suggests that after infection with some coronaviruses, reinfection with the same virus — though usually mild and only happening in a fraction of people — is possible after a period of months or years. Further research is needed to determine the protective effect of antibodies to the virus in those who have been infected. Even if infection with the COVID-19 virus creates long-lasting immunity, a large number…

What should I tell my elderly relatives who are so creeped out by this fascist, disgraceful fiasco, that they will refuse a vaccine even though it has a decent chance of doing some good?

Perhaps if you encourage them to think of it as something other than a creepy, fascist, disgraceful fiasco, they might be more inclined to think rationally about it?

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#156

Post by DenisM »

nradov wrote: post #148
unishark wrote: post #60

> * Herd immunity numbers assume no ongoing vaccination -- they more or less say, "If life went back to normal, would the virus slow down or speed up?" I'd say ongoing vaccination (after herd immunity is reached) is irrelevant to the herd immunity calculation. Is that what you meant? Though we'd obviously still need vaccinations as much of the world will not have herd immunity for a long time, if ever. And certainly…

What a horrible comment. The impact of social distancing is far worse than a few minor diseases. You should be ashamed of yourself.

> You should be ashamed of yourself.

I appreciate your point, but please let’s keep this place civil. It might be the last one of the kind.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#157

Post by downandout »

farnsworth wrote: post #154
downandout wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's to say that we will ever reach that point? COVID-19 will be with us forever [1], which means that governments can forever point to it as a reason to push for increasingly oppressive restrictions. The economic meltdown resulting from these restrictions is pushing even the most capitalist countries much further onto the socialism spectrum than anyone could have imagined just a year ago. Some political parties vie…

I wish I lived in your reality. Where somebody has a Plan and everything is going as it is supposed to. Unfortunately that is not true. The virus is real.

I'm not sure how you could interpret that comment as saying the virus "isn't real". Of course it's real. I also don't think it was "planned," nor did I imply that. But it's certainly being exploited for political ends.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#158

Post by [deleted] »

guscost wrote: post #113
metamet wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you don't want them to get it and die, like my grandma did? I'm not quite sure how you can convince someone to get a vaccine if they don't trust the science on it.

I’m not sure how much of it is fear of the MRNA vaccine itself, and how much is an objection to the creepy fascist context. Probably a lot of both, and maybe yes a bit too much of the former. But in any case their reply is, “We would rather take the risk.” If they get sick and die like your grandma (condolences), they will have done so at least partially by choice, a choice which they have damn well earned by their m…

[deleted]

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#159

Post by nitrogen »

bigcorp-slave wrote: post #100

This is unabashedly great news. For those debating if it is a sterilizing vaccine, if it’s perfect, what it means, etc, I point you to the following chart from Moderna’s trial: https://www.zq1.de/~bernhard/images/share/mRNA-1273-trial.pn... I think this pretty much says it all.

What is the Y axis, and how was it measured? It's not clear from the legend on the image.

Re: 18.7 Million Americans Vaccinated

#160

Post by amluto »

guscost wrote: post #136
metamet wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could encourage them to keep in mind that by refusing to get vaccinated, they're likely going to be living the rest of their life under threat of contracting COVID. It seems that those who are vaccinated can still spread it, and I don't believe we're going to be in a place where COVID is eliminated altogether anytime soon. There will continue to be outbreaks, and it's possible that those who are vaccinated will p…

> You could encourage them to keep in mind that by refusing to get vaccinated, they're likely going to be living the rest of their life under threat of contracting COVID. I think you might be blind to how a person who values freedom more than safety, and who sees more danger to free civilization than to public health in this affair, would receive this threat. It would be an utterly awful thing to say.

Let’s grant that one thinks that the various COVID restrictions are a danger to free civilization. How exactly does this translate to getting a vaccine being a danger to free civilization?
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