Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills • Hacker News Board

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#151

Post by thaeli » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:51 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #88

yboris wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Try getting a price for a procedure or visit beforehand "I tried to find out how much my son’s birth would cost. No one would tell me." [0] [0] https://www.vox.com/2016/5/5/11591592/birth-cost-hospital-bi...

The answer is always “your out of pocket maximum” if it’s all done with in network providers, and infinity if any out of network providers are involved.

Which is a problem when out of network providers sneak in, such as commonly happens with surgical assistants. Have a covered and pre approved procedure from an in network surgeon at an in network hospital, and then oops because the surgeon added someone else to the room they never told you about now here's an out of network bill.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#152

Post by ashtonkem » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:52 PM UTC

iaw wrote: post #100

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

> has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare The current trend in 'free-market economics' is to call captured markets free and then argue for the relatively lax regulation. Most markets are not free markets and the healthcare definitely isn't. There's very little true choice, participants are typically under duress when seeking expensive services, and prices are hidden.…

Price transparency would help, but it wouldn’t solve the duress problem. After a car crash we all want to go to the nearest hospital rather than the most price efficient one.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#153

Post by adkadskhj » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:53 PM UTC

hellonoko wrote: post #102

dpeck wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is inappropriate word choice here or anywhere. Remove your slur.

Take a read about "The Euphemism Treadmill"

It's not wrong. Imo the issue isn't the treadmill - that's natural, and will always happen with or without PC police. Unacceptable words existed long before PC police (in the modern sense) existed. Communities have long self moderated acceptable words.

The real debate is about how fast the treadmill moves.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#154

Post by calvinmorrison » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #152

iaw wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare The current trend in 'free-market economics' is to call captured markets free and then argue for the relatively lax regulation. Most markets are not free markets and the healthcare definitely isn't. There's very little true choice, participants are typically under duress when seeking expensive services, and prices are hidden.…

Price transparency would help, but it wouldn’t solve the duress problem. After a car crash we all want to go to the nearest hospital rather than the most price efficient one.

That's probably true but a lot of medical cost is scheduled like follow up or specialist visits, surgery and things of the less urgent nature.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#155

Post by telchar » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

bfieidhbrjr wrote: post #57

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

There's no "market" in healthcare in the US. Long ago, it became illegal to open a hospital without a 'certificate of need' from the State. That's why so many towns have only one hospital - it's a government granted monopoly like cable companies in the 80s. Differential pricing is also illegal. You fly cheap on Sunday at 3am, expensive on Monday at 9am. Healthcare providers are not allowed to charge less when it's ch…

Free market principles fail for healthcare for reasons entirely unrelated to those things, as has been pointed out up-thread. You're advocating for regulations to be eliminated as if that would fix unrelated problems. Do you care if healthcare is improved, or do you just want to see free-market-style reforms for their own sake?

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#156

Post by ajtaylor » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:54 PM UTC

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

While being only slightly sarcastic, maybe it's time to put a sign on the door "If you're not covered by health plan XXX, please do not come in this room." That we have to even joke about such things is beyond ridiculous.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#157

Post by FireBeyond » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

ecf wrote: post #108

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

The only statistic you need to know to justify America being a shitty country with even shittier healthcare is that it is only one of two countries in the entire world that allow pharma companies to directly advertise to consumers.

And that the other country only allowed it under pressure from the US for a trade agreement.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#158

Post by tesseract » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

t0mbstone wrote: post #55

dpeck wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is inappropriate word choice here or anywhere. Remove your slur.

re·tard verb past tense: retarded; past participle: retarded /riˈtärd/ delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment. "our progress was retarded by unforeseen difficulties" It seems to me that the word's usage is an accurate description of America's lack of progress in this area...

It's perfectly fine in a technical context: "bacterial growth is retarded by refrigeration" or something of that nature.

But that's not how the commenter used the word. There are other, far less ambiguous and far more polite words to refer to a general lack of progress... old-fashioned, primitive, backwards, antediluvian, obstinate, ...

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#159

Post by javiramos » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

jsperson wrote: post #13

That it takes such effort to pass a bill like this - 80% public approval, banning a clearly predatory practice, has turned me from a pure free market thinking into a believer in single payer healthcare. The free market just doesn't work when there is very little elasticity in consumption. I've been on the receiving end of a $15K air ambulance bill (thankfully covered by insurance) as well as the out of network specia…

>the out of network specialist at an in-network hospital

The worst. After a $2k bill, I learned my lesson to check every doctor that attends me for coverage even if it is in an in-network hospital.

Re: Congress is set to ban most surprise medical bills

#160

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #67

lordnacho wrote: post #11

> Surprise bills happen when an out-of-network provider is unexpectedly involved in a patient’s care. Patients go to a hospital that accepts their insurance, for example, but get treated there by an emergency room physician who doesn’t. Such doctors often bill those patients for large fees, far higher than what health plans typically pay. How do courts uphold this? You go to a restaurant, they say you can buy the tas…

Some people wear a tag with their blood group on it. Perhaps we should be wearing tags with the amount of money we're willing to spend on a hospital visit.

I'm curious, would this even be essentially "accepted" by any hospital in the US? Not just a tag, but if you were going in for a procedure, could you even say "I want to be sure I will not be treated by anyone not covered by my insurance plan"? Because basically all the forms you need to sign upon admittance essentially say "We can charge you whatever we want and you are responsible for paying it."