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New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

cyclingtips.com

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Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#151

Post by analog31 »

Yetanfou wrote: post #117
analog31 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're a stronger cyclist than me, because I've ridden S-A AW hubs for decades and have broken Zero of them. I've have had them open to determine that they tend to stay in pristine condition under normal use. But the common IGH's do come with specs for minimum gear ratio front to back (2:1, I think), suggesting an implied torque limit. I've always wondered which part was the weak link. The cogs wear out under no…

> I've always wondered which part was the weak link. Well, now you know... especially in 3d gear (when the cross drives the planetary hub by engaging on the top of the cog axles) the clutch is under high load. I often rode that bike with a heavy trailer (made from a shipping crate and some moped wheels which I happened to have lying around) to haul my guitar, amp and saxophone through the Dutch countryside to practic…

I'm a double bassist, and have only seen pictures of people cycling with their basses, but they are all either from the Netherlands or NYC.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#152

Post by Symbiote »

forest_dweller wrote: post #116
ComputerGuru wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess I'm a bit (to use one of Bike Snob NYC's favorite words) nonplussed. JK Rowling taught me that nonplussed is apparently a part of the daily vernacular in the UK.

Not really. I've never heard it used in the the general publice. It is normally used by office manager types and by talking heads in politics.

My dad managed to say it about once a week, generally when describing disappointing work or behaviour from the children at his school.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#153

Post by kenned3 »

Whenever i see things like this, i immediatly think "Audiophile". you know, the $238 "Directionally balanced" Ethernet cables, or the "low oxygen" copper.

Once people take their hobby too far, you will end up with things like this.

For $2K you can buy our (exotic and unnecessarily expensive metal) chain, which reduces friction to 0 and lasts forever.

I ride a fair amount (150-200KM a week in the summers) and am always surprized to see everything on a bike is measured in grams, except the biggest impact, the rider itself?

Sure i shaved 4g on my $400 waterbottle holder.... but when i weight 80KG.. and have another 2kg of water with me, does that 4g really matter?

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#154

Post by calvinmorrison »

dharmab wrote: post #147
to11mtm wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this chain is truly more efficient and/or durable, I would expect them to be selling to two specific markets: - BMX: This market would be all over anything that would be an improvement in durability, and frankly a percentage would just do it for the different tooth design. - Auto: Admittedly, the site for the company that is making this new chain mentions automotive in a blog post, but I don't see anything specifi…

Tangent: BMW has developed a new diamond-coated chain for motorcycles which they claim requires no regular maintenance. (Motorcycle chains, which are external and near the ground, have to be cleaned and re-lubricated every 300-500 miles for maximum life.) https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/08/27/m-endurance-motorbike-cha...

Another point: BMW Motorrad has used driveshafts on their bikes since the 80s. In a conventional setup much like a automobile. The only real majntaining is to lube the end gear which sits in a kind of differential housing (there's no diff, but imagine how a car's driveshaft connects to the rear axle).

My bike (a k75) has it and well it's pretty cool!

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#156

Post by iambateman »

kenned3 wrote: post #153

Whenever i see things like this, i immediatly think "Audiophile". you know, the $238 "Directionally balanced" Ethernet cables, or the "low oxygen" copper. Once people take their hobby too far, you will end up with things like this. For $2K you can buy our (exotic and unnecessarily expensive metal) chain, which reduces friction to 0 and lasts forever. I ride a fair amount (150-200KM a week in the summers) and am alway…

It’s not odd for a professional rider to optimize to that level, though.

The article spent most of the words focused on high-performance racing.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#158

Post by pcl »

baybal2 wrote: post #140
rdiddly wrote: post #66

I'll tell ya what I see: no rollers. Pins rubbing (wearing) both sides of the tooth. Including the back side, which will never exert any forward longitudinal force on a chain unless it's made of magnets. I also see a highly suspect FEA diagram on the right, where teeth not even engaged still show non-zero stresses (lighter blue, not the darkest blue), indicating that the color/stress scale has been changed compared t…

I'm afraid this is kind of a scam too. The solution clearly loses on weight/benefit ratio to just making a thicker chain.

At the pro level, bicycles are regularly below regulation weight, and then dead weight is added to get back to spec. So, there is budget for extra weight for higher performance parts.

However, the rule of thumb is to minimize rotational weight (e.g., wheels) due to the increase in rotational inertia. I wonder whether chain weight is similarly problematic.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#159

Post by war1025 »

usrusr wrote: post #149
mpol wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think internal hubs are amazing :) Derailer systems only absord energy in the chain and bearings, and a well maintained system can maybe lose 1.5% of energy. Internal hub gearing can lose around 15% energy. The shop keeper won't tell you this, he just wants to sell you a bike. If he starts talking difficult things, buyers might just go to the next shop to buy what they had already chosen.

Internal hubs are amazing for the kind of bike that's always outside and gets maintenance beyond occasional tire pumping about as often as summer olympics are opened. Unfortunately SRAM stopped production of the T3 years ago, it was the perfect drive for a low maintenance, low value practical utility bike, providing the easy 80% of everything you want from bicycle gears for short distance commuting. Derailleur system…

> Derailleur systems receiving a similar lack of maintenance are what turns people into short distance drivers.

Funny, I thought it was my three young kids that did that.

I always had a mountain bike growing up. Having now transitioned to more of a road bike, the difference in rideability is pretty stark.

I guess it could be the derailleur, but I assumed it was the tires and gearset that made it a pain to get places. I also have noticed a night and day difference when my tires are properly inflated. I just replaced the tubes and tires so maybe I'll have better luck now, but previously I needed to refill the tires basically daily to keep them in the right range.

Re: New bike chain claims to be faster, more durable

#160

Post by loeg »

kenned3 wrote: post #153

Whenever i see things like this, i immediatly think "Audiophile". you know, the $238 "Directionally balanced" Ethernet cables, or the "low oxygen" copper. Once people take their hobby too far, you will end up with things like this. For $2K you can buy our (exotic and unnecessarily expensive metal) chain, which reduces friction to 0 and lasts forever. I ride a fair amount (150-200KM a week in the summers) and am alway…

This is more like "random concept car" / F1 than audiophilia.

The idea here, if it is sound and measures well, is basically only useful to track racers (because they race single-speed bicycles). Current chains are extremely efficient, and mostly compatible at the same nominal width (expressed as 10-speed, 11-speed, 12-speed). And they are very cheap. People do spend absurd money shaving grams on bikes, but this product is not really in that space. It requires an IGH or a single-speed and isn't compatible with any other high-end drivetrain components on the market. That's a non-starter even for the people spending $15k on a bicycle.

Here's a better "audiophile" example in vogue in cycling at the moment: ceramic bearings. These cost a lot more than high-quality steel bearings and quickly become less efficient than steel ones because the hard ceramic bearing destroys the softer steel races.

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