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Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

reuters.com

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Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#151
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that has anything to do with Nasa or Nokia?

Somewhere, a person with the expertise to deploy cellular networks is working on this rather than WY.

Deploying a cellular network is a simple exercise in capital expenditure and operating it as a service run of the mill business.

It's not about technical expertise but of business. Why the business does not provide the service? I have no idea.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By being in a country that is a nuclear armed superpower with veto rights on the UN Security Council. Stuff like outer space treaty only matters when the bigger players are willing enforce it.

As far as I know the outer space treaty only prevents the construction of military installations, but civilian construction would be perfectly lawful under the treaty.

Military installations will go out the window as soon as a military has something useful to do up there. Right now it is a interesting idea but not actually practicable. When a war starts military leaders get their way if it means winning, which means the treaty will be broke if there is something useful to do in space.

This is why chemical weapons treaties are signed and obeyed, while land mind treaties are not: the military of powerful countries doesn't seem chemical weapons as something they want, while landmines are useful in some situations. (If your country has signed a land mind treaty it is probably because they can count on an allied country that hasn't to place land mines. If your country hasn't signed a chemical weapons treaty it is because your military isn't very good by modern standards and so you can accept the downsides)

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delta T? Please explain. I'm familiar with DeltaV, but pretty much all the delta T usages I have seen refer to a time interval. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v

Delta T in this case is probably referring to the change between the minimum and maximum temperatures experienced on the surface of the moon. In other words, the delta between something getting really hot spending 14 days in direct sunlight with no convection to cool it down and then getting really cold spending 14 days in darkness. Delta T (for temperature) can also refer to the delta in temperature across an object…

> In other words, the delta between something getting really hot spending 14 days in direct sunlight with no convection to cool it down and then getting really cold spending 14 days in darkness.

Hmm. Could a buffer (e.g. water) be used? Basically... radiate heat out of the buffer when it's cold and move heat from the device into the buffer when it's warm?

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#154
post #82

If there is intelligent life somewhere out there, when they travel to space, I wonder if they also insist on operating technology that is at least one generation back, for the reason of "proven reliability"? I'd say probably yes. If we ever get a visit from them, that "shmux semiconductor" will be the old model...

Given the nature of space travel, it will likely be a very old model indeed. Unless they have FTL!

If they don't have FTL (including no time effects) they will never come. Space is too large to go anywhere useful. The nearest start is ~4 light years away, at 1/10th the speed of light (vastly faster than we know how to go) it is 40 years to get here! We have done a lot of searching for life and haven't found it, the closer the planet is, the more likely we are to find it, thus I think it is safe to concluded there is no life within 20 light years or so. At 20 light years communication via radio is hard to establish just because turn around time for questions won't be answered in a lifetime. (It will be interesting learning about their Roman Empire history, but if they explain science and there is even one thing we don't get the person who sends the what do you mean question is retired/dead before the answer arrives - unless a few years latter we figure it out anyway.

Take the civilization 20 light years away, either they left before they even know we existed (we didn't have any emissions that indicated intelligence, though they might be able to detect life), and so they are not equipped to deal with us. If they want to take over - they didn't break enough weapons because they didn't expect to need them.

Even if life is common in the universe, it isn't common in any area where an intelligent civilization can expect to actually reach without FTL.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting an entire country of millions of people change their phone numbers because America decides that it wants to create a new international area code which happens to match the word "moon" in English?

You're suggesting an entire country of millions of people change their phone numbers Yes. It's been done before. And considering the available space, eventually the moon could have more people on it than Thailand. because America What makes you think that only one country will use phones on the moon?

"Luna" 5862 might be a better option if there isn't already a 58?

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#156

And so the legendary indestructibility of Nokia's phones shall be put to the test once more. The very first or two digits of any phone number on Earth are the country calling codes. We should add extra digits for a planetary calling code.

Nokia isn't doing the phones, that's maybe why you're getting the downvotes; On the second point, however, I kinda agree. People are mentioning some of the +8XX international codes but we should really go hierarchical. A separate higher level code for Earth, for Moon, other planetary bodies; then eventually higher level codes for solar systems, etc. I really doubt they'll even be doing phone numbers, though.

There is no point in doing solar systems - the turn around time to the next star is ~ 8 years. Nobody will make a phone call with that sort of latency. It will be email (or videos) if anything at all.

Even in this solar system only Venus and Mars can you even think about a phone call from earth - and then only for a few days when the orbits align closely. The rest of the time the latency will be too bad. Even when it is possible you will need special training to deal with the latency - it will be more of a monologue not a conversation, with pre-planed handoff times for the other side to state their bit.

The moon will be possible, but most people who try it will find it annoying enough that they will avoid it. If grandma didn't go with you that it will be the only way to talk to the grandkids so it will be done, but if the moon ever becomes self-sustaining expect that there isn't a lot of communication back and forth.

There is a reason satellite never took off for long distance calls - it works but people hated it because the other party didn't respond fast enough. Geosynchronous orbit is only used for calls where there isn't an underseas cable (I don't know if any such satellites are even left in orbit).

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#157
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you consider decent? Gigabit only? You can get at least 60-100 Mbps in most towns, as long as you aren't out of town. Probably gigabit if you're willing to pay a lot. Spectrum is the main option in the big towns. Looks like you can get gigabit from them in the big towns for $110/month for the first 12 months. Not sure what it would go to after that. If you live out of town, or in a really small town, you're g…

When I was looking for property in WA and OR there was absolutely no way to get internet (even DSL was a big maybe) outside of towns.

WA has some municipal fiber networks. In my county, you can get hooked up if you foot the bill to extend the network to your property and find a retail provider to service your account. There's an online map that shows where the fiber currently is, you'll save a bunch of money on fiber construction if you build near where it already is.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#158
post #97

Is anyone aware of a date/time representation system that would work universally (including extraterrestrial places)? I just have been curious about this question for long. Sure, we could keep an earth referential on a moon base, but then what about Mars? As a software developer it is already difficult to always get dates/times properly with timezones, now imagine places which does not have 24 hours per day or the sa…

It depends on which layer you're asking about addressing. You can represent anything non-relatavistic on top of the Unix epoch, and it could be handled as simply as using alternate time zones. The big problems come from huge Earth assumptions about interval duration and interval sequencing being violated. A lunar day is 29.5 Earth days. Does the lunar calendar use solar days, and just have absurdly long weeks and yea…

Just do GMT and ignore the sun. It's not like we have people waking up and opening the curtains any time soon.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#159
post #28

If there is intelligent life somewhere out there, when they travel to space, I wonder if they also insist on operating technology that is at least one generation back, for the reason of "proven reliability"? I'd say probably yes. If we ever get a visit from them, that "shmux semiconductor" will be the old model...

its so they can have some planned obsolescence

Lots of profit in those service contracts.

Re: Nokia selected by NASA to build cellular network on the moon

#160
post #67

Dumb question: What gives NASA the authority to build anything on the moon?

Until a global org based on science and not d@#$ length emerges to take the species forward with breakneck speed as far as space based research is concerned- everyone can do whatever they like. Treaties yada yada no one is going to check an American satellite if it has military applications or not. So we'll just have to wait till the next war to find out that honesty is, in fact, a four letter word.
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