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The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

economist.com

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Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#151

Post by AmericanChopper »

dalbasal wrote: post #76
goku99 wrote: post #12

I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire…

The UN(SC) isn't and has never been a "just solution" or even idealistic in any way. It was and is a way to stop (ultimately nuclear) confrontation between members to prevent WWIII.It has been instrumental to this goal, and this is the actual purpose of the UN. The General Assembly is a nicety. At different points in time, any member could have had such charges like you make leveled at them. This doesn't mean crimes…

Of all the times in history that a nuclear war has been narrowly averted, I don’t remember the UN ever having anything to do with it.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#152

Post by [deleted] »

baybal2 wrote: post #148
dalbasal wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UN(SC) isn't and has never been a "just solution" or even idealistic in any way. It was and is a way to stop (ultimately nuclear) confrontation between members to prevent WWIII.It has been instrumental to this goal, and this is the actual purpose of the UN. The General Assembly is a nicety. At different points in time, any member could have had such charges like you make leveled at them. This doesn't mean crimes…

> It was and is a way to stop (ultimately nuclear) confrontation between members to prevent WWIII.It has been instrumental to this goal, and this is the actual purpose of the UN. The General Assembly is a nicety. No, it is not. The exact purpose of UN's founding was for it to be an instrument with which the West would smack down the next third reich wannabe country before it gets too powerful.

[deleted]

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#153

Post by finolex1 »

goku99 wrote: post #12

I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire…

Your second link seems largely irrelevant to the topic at hand and segues from discussion of the persecution of Uyghers into a generic anti-China rant, of which there are many on other internet forums nowadays.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#154

Post by jiuahweruihawi »

Miner49er wrote: post #42
zpeti wrote: post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

The fact that you are able to make this claim online (even anonymously) without any fear for your personal safety instantly proves that your claim is false.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#155

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

luckylion wrote: post #147
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #34

Often in discussions like this, someone claims that the Uighur crackdown is necessary “because Islamist extremism”. I strongly encourage everyone to familiarize themselves with the history of the Uighurs under Chinese rule, because this isn’t really about Islam. Namely, there used to be a very strong secular movement among the Uighurs, whose main complaint wasn’t the inability to practise Islam (some of these activis…

> resisting the heavy Han Chinese settlement that would lead to the Uighurs becoming a minority in their own province It surprises me that nativist anti-immigration demands are considered righteous in some regions and evil and backwards in others. I understand the general history like you do though, I don't disagree. Radical Uighur groups did help China make the case with their knife attacks on civilians to be painte…

> It surprises me that nativist anti-immigration demands are considered righteous in some regions and evil and backwards in others.

Nativist anti-immigration demands in Europe or North America are generally criticized as hyperbole because immigration will not actually lead to demographic replacement in the near future, in spite of those activists’ claims. Furthermore, in Europe the immigrants invariably assimilate linguistically to their host country – by the second or third generation, the language of the old country is forgotten. Xinjiang is a very different case entirely: China has the numbers to change Xinjiang’s demographics, and virtually none of those Han Chinese immigrants are learning Uighur and using it in public.

> Radical Uighur groups did help China make the case with their knife attacks on civilians to be painted as "just another brand of islamic terrorism".

The major wave of knife attacks (which can be seen as a late sign of desperation) postdate China’s attempt to tie the crackdown on the Uighurs to the West’s War on Terrorism. Again, the chronology here is important.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#156

Post by joelbluminator »

tsjq wrote: post #36

Quite surprised that the Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, et al Global-Islamic-Caliphate forces haven't tried anything at this aggression against Muslims in China.

They don't care about China too much nor about the Uygurs. Their jihadic vision is focused on U.S - Israel alliance which are seen as demonic forces that are respoinsible for everything bad in the muslim world. China isn't seen as someone occupying holy muslim lands or as a great Satan so they are exempt. Iran for instance also has very solid relations with China.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#157

Post by ericmay »

Miner49er wrote: post #42
zpeti wrote: post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

Somehow, someway people have been so caught up in some media firestorm that they actually think that the United States of America “does the same” as China.

When did China last have a Uighur dictator? (Since it’s a dictatorship I mean I guess they don’t really care about having representation of minority groups in positions of power). Does China have schemes to help minorities in China attend college? Are there advocate groups representing Uighu interests in Beijing? Do they have any history or education in Chinese textbooks about the Uighur or other minorities? In the US we did a lot of bad stuff (we all benefit from it now, so every single American born today is as guilty as any other) but at least we actually acknowledge it!

How many immigrants of any sort does China allow to fully immigrate into China on a yearly basis? Can a Syrian apply for a visa or move to China as a refugee?

Why are some Chinese racist against Africans and why is that overlooked? [1], [2], [3]

Does the US have problems? Yep. Even if the US “was the same”, last I checked we have protests and people campaigning to fix our issues. So even if you wanted to make the outlandish claim that “the U.S. is the same”, you can easily look around and see that at a minimum we highlight problems in our society. Who is running against Xi to stop the genocide of Uighur Muslims?

The only thing that makes sense to me here is social media. You (not you specifically) see that first outrage article and then down the scrolling and clicking hole you go until you’re just addicted to being outraged.

I put what I call America-denialism on a similar level as I do anti-vaxers, flat earth era, 9/11 truthers, or Trump deep-state conspiracy theorists. It’s just another wacky idea that you get from extended periods of time going down social media rabbit holes.

[1] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-racism-africans-chi...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/27/china-fails-to...

[3] https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/15/chinas-racism-is-wrecki...

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#158

Post by pizza234 »

burntoutfire wrote: post #61
pizza234 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can the world realistically do? China right now has enormous power over the rest of the world (by means of economical dependency), and I don't see that decreasing. To be clear, I certainly support human rights, but I personally see the situation as so bad, that I'm worried about how China's influence will extend to the West.

Trade embargos? Small ones at first, with an clear plan to plan and timeline to escalate if there's no change. Of course, it would mean putting the lives of those poor people our over our comfort, which means it won't happen.

IMO, the case of the Nobel prize and salmon ban showed the opposite - that is inexpensive for China to punish a country, but not the opposite.

A long analysis has actually been written on this topic: https://www.cmi.no/publications/5805-too-big-to-fault

While on one hand, a coordinated punishment may be effective, on the other hand, I think China has the power to buy other countries' consent step by step.

Additionally, I think China would never relent; doing so would be an admission of guilt, which is poisonous for their regime.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#159

Post by Subsentient »

meiraleal wrote: post #121
sudofail wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s stop the false equivalency. Should more be done for the black community: absolutely. But black people aren’t locked up by the millions in internment camps.

false equivalency? if there is one I'd say the oppression to black people is way worse, specially with so many people invested in suppressing this discussion. It was the Uyghurs that built China's prosperity? Were they enslaved, lynched, segregated for centuries? I don't think there is really an equivalence. What the US did to the black people is a lot worse.

I'm so tired of this drivel. I don't understand how anyone can take themselves seriously saying this shit, comparing the two issues. Only thing I can think of is being paid off by the CCP.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#160

Post by joelbluminator »

Subsentient wrote: post #114
Synaesthesia wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but we must be equally outraged about it. Especially since Americans have more power to change the actions of their own government.

No, we do not, because the crimes of the US are not equally severe and/or are historic and not actively occurring. There's a difference between systemic racism and state-sanctioned cultural genocide signed off on by the dictator himself.

Who determines they are not equally severe? How can we reliably estimate and compare the damage done in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan to what's happening in China?
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