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The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

economist.com

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Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#61

Post by burntoutfire »

pizza234 wrote: post #27
webmobdev wrote: post #10

It's incredibly sad that the world is not doing anything about it. Even if half of the things they say are true - putting anyone in camps for sporting a beard or praying in public, forced prison labour, physical torture, separating new borns and kids from parents in camp, sending kids to brainwashing schools, sexual abuse, organ harvesting etc - it's enough to make anyone feel disgusted at this state of affairs. But…

What can the world realistically do? China right now has enormous power over the rest of the world (by means of economical dependency), and I don't see that decreasing. To be clear, I certainly support human rights, but I personally see the situation as so bad, that I'm worried about how China's influence will extend to the West.

Trade embargos? Small ones at first, with an clear plan to plan and timeline to escalate if there's no change. Of course, it would mean putting the lives of those poor people our over our comfort, which means it won't happen.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#62

Post by herbstein »

zpeti wrote: post #50
Miner49er wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

The US has concentration camps for blacks, native americans and immigrants, where they reeducate you to follow a tyrannical political system? Are they tracked through a social credit system where you can't get a train out of your town if it's bad? Where journalists repeteadly disappear? Where a treaty with the UK is ripped up and a city is invaded? Yeah. Accurate.

Well, the US does have the concentration camps at the border where forced surgeries and sterilizations are being performed.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#64

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

tsjq wrote: post #36

Quite surprised that the Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, et al Global-Islamic-Caliphate forces haven't tried anything at this aggression against Muslims in China.

Maybe because they prefer to focus on countries that project their forces abroad to build empires (starting with oil resources)?

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#65

Post by onetimemanytime »

LatteLazy wrote: post #26
goku99 wrote: post #12

I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire…

The Security Council nations all agreed that rules didn't apply to Security Council nations. The issue here is the UN has zero power to stop this and that's by design.

USA, EU members, Canada, Japan, Australia to start have a lot of power to make China think twice. SANCTIONS! Start with small sanctions first and then a sliding scale if they keep going. But good luck getting them all in the same page, they'll try to cheat and cut backroom deals with China.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#66

Post by Synaesthesia »

tsjq wrote: post #36

Quite surprised that the Al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, et al Global-Islamic-Caliphate forces haven't tried anything at this aggression against Muslims in China.

They have, China has big problems with Islamic terrorism in its western provinces.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#67

Post by chaostheory »

Miner49er wrote: post #42
zpeti wrote: post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

Is the US really much better than China? We do similar to black, Native American, and immigrant people. I'm not sure I want either winning in their current state.

As an immigrant who's experienced and seen both countries, yes, and that's with the US's glaring imperfections. We at least are brave enough to openly admit our faults, and it's in our history books and not whitewashed. imo that's a key step. Nothing else is possible if you can't admit that there's a problem, and getting to this step is nearly impossible without free speech

In addition to freedom of speech, we also have freedom of assembly. Combined both freedoms allow our citizens to both bring awareness to the problem(s) and to try to stop it. Is this perfect? No, but it's still better than China (at least on that front)

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#68

Post by preommr »

goku99 wrote: post #12

I don't understand what's the point of UN when these things are happening in a permanent UNSC member country. This C has been causing nuisance to their neighbors all the time. They Debt-Trap poor nations and exploit them. From Mongols to India, every neighbor has a problem, they are probably most worst neighbor you could get. Recently it was in news with yet another conflict with India[1]. This needs to stop. Entire…

People need to be realistic about what the UN is.

It's not some global authority that will deal with all issues with fairness and justice.

It's pretty much a way to keep countries connected and acts as a common medium for countries to interoperate. It's pretty toothless and obviously so - sovereign countries aren't just going to hand over power like that.

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#69

Post by ASlave2Gravity »

zpeti wrote: post #18

“Here's my strategy on the Cold War: we win, they lose.” ― Ronald Reagan I think it's becoming clearer and clearer that this strategy has to be adopted with China as well. They are out to win, to dominate the world, and they won't back down, and they will use any method to do it. And ask yourself if the world you see inside China is what you want spreading.

I'm gonna get a lot of flak for this, but I think there's a massive anti-China narrative on HN. I see so much talk that's based off of people's view from an entirely Western media-centred POV. There's so much more to what's going on. There's a lot of pot calling the kettle black too. There's a lot of good stuff in the TLS from a few weeks back.

Han is the cultural race/ethnicity in mainland China. [0] It's about 92% of the population. So that's a lot of people. Is China trying to sure up its borders? Yes. Is China out for world domination, I really don't think so. Every single one of my Chinese friends is about as sweet as they come. China is the new mystery to the West, and I don't think people in the West really understand them. The amount of growth in China is outrageous. We've outsourced so much there, and then have a go at them for stuff we don't really understand.

I think GP is right in ways. I think there are some nefarious actors in China running the same plays from the playbook written by the Anglosphere war powers, but to lump it all in a say 'China bad' is, in my very under-read / under-experienced, opinion, a terrible thing.

他们很好 - Hope I've got my characters right! Tāmen hěn hǎo

Even the language isn't like ours. It's more direct and blunt.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Chinese

Re: The persecution of the Uyghurs is a crime against humanity

#70

Post by arethuza »

zpeti wrote: post #48
ianleeclark wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be acknowledged that this strategy ultimately ended up with the Taliban and our 20+ year occupation of Afghanistan and various massacres throughout central america. > The presidency of Ronald Reagan in the United States was marked by multiple scandals, resulting in the investigation, indictment, or conviction of over 138 administration officials Which was (still is?) The most for any president.

And the freeing of half of Europe from tyranny. The reduction in threat of nuclear annihilation of the world. The opening up of huge amounts of the world to free trade and prosperity.

I think it's fair to say that the role of US policies, and Reagan's policies in particular, on the fall of the Soviet Union is a matter of some debate.
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